To think this woman begging was taking liberties?

[BlackFriYay]

As I was coming out of the dentist a bit woozy from anesthetic I was stopped outside the newsagents next door by a dishevelled woman asking me if I could buy her some food.

I vaguely recognise her as somebody who sits with the drinkers in the town centre.

I said I would and asked what she wanted, she said some eggs and some bread. No problem.

I followed her into the shop where she proceeded to select the biggest bag of Tilda rice that was there, the biggest tray of eggs they had, a big bottle of some kind of pricey fruit punch. There were much smaller / unbranded versions available.

She put it on the counter then went back to look for something else at which point I looked at the price stickers.

£10.99 for the rice
£5 something for the big tray of eggs
£4.99 for the big bottle of fruit punch

And she wasn't even finished.

I thought to myself not a chance this and told her it's too much and I can't help, sorry. Bye.

She then followed me out of the shop asking if I can give her £10.

I'm happy to help somebody to a reasonable extent but I think she was taking the complete piss out of me.

What would you have done?

He also recognised self-righteous people who judge from aloft.

I stand by what I said, the reaction was cruel.

You have a complex family situation clearly@Treesaleaving , but I think that's a very simplistic and judgemental attitude overall. But perhaps there's a need for that black and white thinking to protect yourself from what must be less than ideal, no one wants drug addiction in the family

I think I sort of haggled it down a bit! I was a student at the time and I had never encountered that sort of situation before. So it was more like: your baby doesn’t need three of each jacket, not you must be joking! In the long run it might have saved me money. Lesson learned.

@listsandbudgets It reminds me of that saying: a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged be reality. It hasn’t exactly made me a conservative, but it did help teach me not to mistake weakness for virtue in a cause.

I understand that it’s frustrating not knowing who is supposedly genuine or not but really in the big scheme of things does it really matter? Should we refuse all people on need because of the ones who are taking the piss? Seems that the people really in need will miss out massively. My point was really if someone is asking for too much money or produce it’s your prerogative to say no and give them what you want to give them instead, some people really do need the charity and if we all stopped providing it then these people who really suffer. They are people after all.

@Trixiefirecracker

I think if I felt it was only a small minority of un-genuine people, I'd agree.

For myself though, I feel two different impulses to charity, one with heart and one with head.

The head one is the one that says: it's mainly luck that I have been able to earn what I have. A portion of my money can do a huge amount of good for others, at little or no detriment to me. So I should do that good. The 'problem' with that, is that the rationally best way to do the most good is not to allocate based on who comes up and asks in the street, and probably not to give in the UK at all, an expensive country with some basic level of social provision. So my 'rational' giving is substantial but unemotional.

The street-giving impulse is a heart one. For a long time I thought along your lines, that better to be tricked once in a while than deny help to people who are genuine. I think if it were, say, one time in ten that I had a bad experience from engaging I'd feel that way. But it's maybe one time in three? It's no use asking my rational brain to take over at that point, because my rational brain just points me to my previous paragraph. At that point, my rational brain is also saying, aren't you just subsidising professional begging gangs, even if you only get it wrong once in a while.

I do still sometimes give to beggars, but it tends to be people who haven't approached me.

You are right though that the onus is on me say no if I'm feeling taken advantage of. I don't particularly mind the: can I have some food. Yes? Then could I have an expensive dinner (not that this version has happened to me). It's the can I have some food. Yes? Then I'd like something high-value and easily re-sellable in the pub (this has happen several times).

Personally don’t care about the spurious homeless people you have described @GeneralPeter, particularly. I have learnt over time, that if you chat to them you generally can work out what is really going on with them pretty quickly. I haven’t ever felt that the money isn’t going where it is needed. Maybe I’m naive but I’m also fine if a few quid goes astray.

I think you sound like a better person than me. (Tone doesn't carry on here, but that's sincerely meant).

I don't mind the money bit specifically (other than to criminals), it's the feeling I've been taken for an idiot. I'm glad you haven't had that experience.

You may also have been luckier, or we live in different places. (Or maybe I look like an idiot! It's possible).

This thread shows that a lot of people expect/want homeless people to be starving bags of bones waring threadbare rags to deserve anything.

But they haven't become homeless/beggars because there isn't enough stuff to go round, but usually because they've failed to function in 'normal' life. Often because of very unfortunate lives. Yes, many turn to substance abuse, and some are part of gangs.

It's really hard to empathise with some homeless people because by the time they've lived in such a crap way long-term, they're often scheming, hardened, and behaving totally outside of the norm.

I used to feel dreadful about it when I was younger, but you just become numb to it because, well, what's the alternative? To feel bad all the time and give stuff away non stop? It's unsustainable.

Still, I try not to judge people whose lives I haven't seen. I think a lot of this ideal of the 'deserving poor' and the 'undeserving poor' is a bit naive.

There's a reason most of us don't become drug addicts or homeless - we've got support networks, and/or we think there's something better on offer.

I don't think anyone wants to see starving people. Clearly op and others were willing to help out people on need. But there are fakers who make ordinary people lose trust, which means that people in genuine need go without.

It's seriously cheeky to ask for food and buy 5L of squash for £5, and just taking advantage. People like that can put you off.

I just don't think someone is a 'faker' if they're obviously scheming and desperate. Yes they probably want drugs instead. They've had a terrible life. Don't buy them stuff if you don't want to (I don't).

But stop with the judging on who is 'really' poor/desperate and who isn't. Nobody who acts in that way - begging strangers for weird items so they can sell them for drugs - has had a great life. They're not a 'faker'.

I avoid a lot of homeless people / street addicts like most people on here. I've also helped the odd person who I can really empathise with and relate to.

But even when I'm frightened or find people rude, I try to remind myself that poverty and addiction and trauma often don't produce kind, sad-looking people who behave nicely. It produces people who are totally fucked up. And so there's more to it than just 'the deserving, upstanding, moral poor who just want a loaf of bread and a tin of beans' and 'those nasty scheming beggars'. The latter might have been the former once.

Nobody wants to engage with piss-taking, intimidating people (whether homeless or not) - that's the reality. But I try not to get on my high horse about what they should want and be grateful for or how they should behave, like some people on this thread clearly do.

They have clearly have issues but that doesn't mean they need food, specifically. I can see how someone might pick up rice and eggs. Definitely stand by anyone asking for non-food luxury items is just taking advantage.

Regardless of what's going on, posters here are being generous and don't have to get them anything.

I don't like being approached by men though, and I've been shouted at for ignoring them

OMG thats terrible. £5 to you is nothing but its going hungry to her. Please don't ever do that again. The poor person is desperate FGS! 🤔

Yes I agree with you.

Aren't we mostly 3 pay cheques from homelessness ourselves if we can't pay the rent/mortgage?

Also she was probably desperate with poss a family to feed?

I always give cash directly to beggars because if you give to a charity it can be spent on all sorts like offices etc before the actual cause benefits 🤔

People are having more of a go at the PP who gave the woman £2 than at those who give nothing at all!

Correction, she gave £5 and then took it back and then gave £2 just because the “beggar” had the “audacity” in asking her to “buy her some food items from the local Tesco.” Those were the poster’s exact words not mine. And you can’t see anything wrong with that sort of behaviour?

I can see plenty wrong with being given something out of kindness and asking for more. Is that how you behave, @ExitChasedByAPanda ?

Entirely possible she had been banned from the supermarket...

Maybe, but giving money to a beggar and then taking some of it back is quite shocking to me!

You did the right thing. And don't offer again. Give to a food bank if you must. Though I never do. I'd rather give something to charities that actually help hungry folk. Not people who spend money on other things.