To think this woman begging was taking liberties?

[BlackFriYay]

As I was coming out of the dentist a bit woozy from anesthetic I was stopped outside the newsagents next door by a dishevelled woman asking me if I could buy her some food.

I vaguely recognise her as somebody who sits with the drinkers in the town centre.

I said I would and asked what she wanted, she said some eggs and some bread. No problem.

I followed her into the shop where she proceeded to select the biggest bag of Tilda rice that was there, the biggest tray of eggs they had, a big bottle of some kind of pricey fruit punch. There were much smaller / unbranded versions available.

She put it on the counter then went back to look for something else at which point I looked at the price stickers.

£10.99 for the rice
£5 something for the big tray of eggs
£4.99 for the big bottle of fruit punch

And she wasn't even finished.

I thought to myself not a chance this and told her it's too much and I can't help, sorry. Bye.

She then followed me out of the shop asking if I can give her £10.

I'm happy to help somebody to a reasonable extent but I think she was taking the complete piss out of me.

What would you have done?

@YankSplaining Nah, he said to the two guys that was what workhouses were for. He gave Bob Cratchit Christmas Day off without docking his wages though, so he was a better employer than Sainsbury's.

Oh AFTER the transformation, yes he did. Sorry, it's late and I've taken antihistamine!

The OP can sleep perfectly well I'm sure.

The woman was massively taking the piss. She wasn't asking for a sandwich or a hot drink or something like that. She wanted large quantities of premium goods.

The OP also didn't say the woman was homeless. What do you do with raw eggs if you're homeless?

No worries. 🙂

I'm not being mean, but do you honestly need us to tell you whether she was taking liberties or not. Like genuinely?

You were kind and generous. If the women was taking advantage that’s on her conscience not yours.

listsandbudgets · Yesterday 12:08

OK just to add some balance to this thread I went to Lidl last night.

I did something similar ages ago, which I put on MN. There was an African woman with a baby, a toddler and a boy of about five. She didn't have much on the belt and it was all basics range.

When she came to pay, she had vouchers and the till woman said she didn't have enough, so she started putting things back and reached for the nappies. I gave her ten quid and some change and she was able to get everything.

As I put my stuff through, the till woman snapped, "Are you gonna pay for my fucking shopping too?"

In general 'treat others as you want to be treated' is a very good rule.

But I think RedFox made a very interesting comment earlier.

Basically, what's happening in these scenarios is that people have treated others as they'd like to be treated (engaging, trust, charity), and the anger comes from feeling that has been abused, because the homeless person has, in effect, broken the golden rule.

Where RedFox differs from many is in what she (?he) thinks the right response to that should be.

I think also that a lot of the cynicism comes from experience of professional begging gangs. RedFox and others all agree they are a curse.

The problem is that for many people it's not obvious who is a professional gang-led beggar and who is not.

Also, if the bulk food is being gathered though deception and sold on for cash, I think many people may feel it's a pretty blurred line.

I think they get op to pay then hang around at the counter and demand a refund. We had this happen to someone who poured us a sob story in Canada, asked for food got us to walk for ages to a particular shop then started taking the piss, I surmised he would ask store for a refund so ended up just giving him 5 dollars

another woman asked for food so I said if she returned to a store with me (we were outside it) I’d buy her a sandwich she said no I want a subway, I refused then she said well really I need £ to pay for a hotel for the night. I refused she then went batshit crazy at us proceeded to follow us into our hotel over the road and tried to get in the lift after us was quite frightening

oyr local big issue seller steals from the boots two shops along

Even a 1kg bag of rice and a dozen eggs would provide a few good sized meals. Carrying those items around would be a challenge, surely? And £20 is a lot of money for some people when they were probably expecting to spend more like £5. I don't think you're a bad person for saying no.

As an alcoholic myself (currently sober) I have every sympathy and know the struggles of having an addiction as well as serious mental health problems very well. I would 100% drink if I was homeless, I would drink to be out of it as I would be terrified. It would be an awful existence.

I get approached for money often but never carry cash. I wouldn't be able to afford to give it away even if I did have change on me. Of course I feel bad and think that could be me in that situation. I just say sorry but I can't help.

Beggars honestly just want money for non essentials like fags and booze. Fact.
Working in a town, I regularly saw the same beggars and people always gave them food, they always had enough food. When they ask for money for food, you know they are lying and want money for drugs.

Money will not feed beggars.

I would have done the same thing. The till bitch would have got a mouthful from me for saying that

I think sometimes these situations catch you on the hop and it's difficult to consider all outcomes when you're put on the spot.

I started a thread a few months ago about a (male) beggar who literally blocked my path as I was walking down the road and was hassling me for money. I found it very intimidating and I did give him some money and he complained it wasn't enough. The amount of replies telling me I was stupid/an idiot/shouldn't have engaged etc.
Several people would have apparently told him to fuck off. He was a foot taller than me, quite aggressive and literally walking side to side on the pavement so I would have had to step in a (really busy) road to go past, at that moment I couldn't think of a better way to deal with the situation!

Rice and eggs is hardly luxurious food (I’m not sure what fruit punch is - like watered down juice?).

It’s fine to say no - but my guess is most people say no so she tried when you said yes.

If she does have access to cooking facilities, rice and eggs are a good option. Sure - she might have been planning to immediately return, she might have been planning to sell them. She could also have been planning to cook up a big meal of rice and eggs for her family/community.

I agree. Either give the 2 quid or 5 quid, but to take money back and then give a smaller amount is unbelievably cruel especially to someone who doesn’t have a lot.

I actually thought that those were items were actually quite smart and would go a long way so I wouldn’t begrudge someone to all of a sudden not choose the brands that I expect them to choose.

Nobody who 'needs' fruit punch as part of their usual diet is starving. That £5 would have been spent on bread and tinned food if she was.

Also yes, if you're disheveled and begging people assume you're a rough sleeper. Rough sleepers don't have any need for uncooked foods. So, doubtful that's even the case.

It does seem like she was pushing her luck, but when you are homeless and have no income maybe you need to push your luck? I’d have just bought her all the food she wanted while thinking she’s a bit cheeky, but thank goodness I have a warm home and can buy myself any food I want at any time.

This is very helpful to know about. Thanks.
i too have become hardened from years of encounters.

@Theredfoxfliesatmidnight

If you have the time and inclination, I would be fascinated to hear more about your experience, and in particular what you would advise to people on this board who do want to help, but don't want to feel taken advantage of (either by the sort of well-meaning-but-desparate scenario you mentioned, or the professional-gangs).

I thought your point about the different social norms/expectations was really interesting. I think how I feel about that is that there are people in my life who I support even though I may not be treated 'right' in return. But they are typically family or people I have some long-established bond with, not a stranger. And it's not the 'offer some money, now they want more' that is particularly upsetting (to me), but a feeling I've had in quite a few encounters that I've extended trust and (I feel at least, perhaps mistakenly) that I've been deliberately lied to.

I think the suspicion was that it was being sold for cash. In which case, just ask for the cash, then we're both on the same level and I can make a decision.

One of the main reasons I don't engage with people who have a story like this is that I feel I've been 'bitten' a few too many times and am now shy. The most extreme (but by no means the only) case was a women explained she wanted a blanket and a baby-gro to keep her baby warm. When I agreed she then went off like Supermarket Sweep around M&S and came back with £250+ of designer children's clothing (not baby wear), including multiples of the same thing. She definitely saw me coming.

The sad result of a few too many experiences like that is there must be many good people in the decades since who do just want food to eat (even, a bulk bag of rice to feed them and their friends), but I won't support.

She could also have been planning to cook up a big meal of rice and eggs for her family/community

I mentioned the same, mainly because large numbers of the "beggars" in my own city are in fact part of big Romanian gangs - ditto the Big Issue sellers, which has led to a lot of violence towards genuine sellers who've now been driven out for "trying to take over their patch"

As so many of us have said, giving to support charities instead avoids enabling this sort of thing; it won't stop the approaches, but at least the target can refuse knowing they've already done something to help

I once got called a thieving bastard by a beggar when only giving them part of the handful of change I pulled out of my pocket. Bit uncalled for!

@GeneralPeter Please tell me you didn't pay for £250 worth of stuff for her?

Scrooge would not offer anybody any money at all. This is central to the story. But the poor that Dickens prefers are either symbolic or ashamed of their poverty, rather than busily looking gift horses in the mouth. He's not a writer who doesn't recognise grift.