'Dad's side of the family'...is it really a thing?

[TheolderIgetthelessIknow]

I read recently, not on Mumsnet but somewhere similar, a young woman stating categorically that she would not take on responsibility for communication (such as making arrangements, sending birthday gifts, etc.) to her husband's side of the family. I was a little shocked to see in the comments that most of the respondents wholeheartedly agreed with her, even if it meant that communication with that side of the family dwindled to nothing, assuming that many men are not that bothered about keeping in touch or even remembering birthdays, etc. I'm an older woman with a daughter and a son, both married. My daughter keeps in daily contact with me but has virtually no contact with her PIL. As a result, I see a lot of her children and know what's happening in their lives. My son, on the other hand, literally only gets in touch when he wants something -usually money- and I never hear from my DIL at all. I only see their children when I visit them (self-invited); they hardly ever visit me and my DH although I've invited them lots of times ( they're always 'busy', often with DIL's side of the family) and said that they can come whenever they want to. Birthdays, mothers/fathers days and Christmas are a bit hit and miss regarding presents and cards from them, although I always visit with cards and gifts for them.
So, my query is: am I being unreasonable to expect at least some sort of regular input from them, regarding the children at least? Is it definitely a thing that young mums now refuse to take on the burden of keeping their MIL up to date and maybe sending birthday cards or whatever? It might make me feel a bit better if I know it's just my son's laziness (not that that's any excuse) rather than antipathy from my DIL.

“What happened to the idea of family?” asks the woman who doesn’t expect her sons to even maintain a basic relationship with his own mother after he gets married 😳

If my sons didn’t send me a birthday card I’d be very disappointed in them, and I’d tell them so! I certainly wouldn’t go blaming a woman I haven’t even met yet for my son’s thoughtless.

Dh’s parents only do a ropey buffet or full blown Sunday/Christmas dinners.

It’s just so eugh not what any of use want to as we feel waste a weekend day doing because it’s never a weekday evening come round. It’s always come for 1pm Saturday. Or 2pm Sunday.

where as a midweek pizza 7/8pm from (pizza place) come on by. Doesn’t really steal a day but it’s still time together.

You really haven't read the room, have you, OP?
I'm 63 and married for 34 years. I have never taken on the wife work of choosing, buying, wrapping queuing and posting presents and sending cards to my husband's side of the family or Christmas cards to his old school friends.
I was for many years the higher earner and just as busy and stressed as he was, so why would I do that?
I also cut down my own mother's expectations. She has seven nephews and nieces, some of whom have their own children, for whom she continues to buy presents and then moans about it. She reminds me of my sister-in-law's birthday: we have never exchanged presents.
This stuff is just busy work for women in the way that the etiquette of leaving calling cards was.
Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

OP you need to talk to your son. Say you're disappointed in his lack of effort and that it's one-sided. It's not your DIL's responsibility.

It's actually really depressing to see some of the older women on this thread insisting that women should do all of the family admin because men are just crap at it. It's no wonder that we still have so many men that are seemingly incapable of stepping up... that's how they have been raised to think about these things.

I can only hope that younger women will keep striving to change the script. I hope that, one day, my dd will have a fabulous relationship with a lovely MIL, but I also hope that she has at least a half-way decent husband who wouldn't dream of outsourcing his relationship with his parents to her.

I don't want my dd to be part of some sort of weird, incompetent and dysfunctional family where the women are expected to do all of the work required to maintain relationships. I want her to be a part of a normal, loving family where everyone respects each other and expects to do their fair share.

Have you tried phrasing it as “when are you free”, rather than “are you free on this date”? If your DIL is booking up all their weekends and not leaving time for his family then that is unreasonable. If, however, the issue is your son’s poor organisational and communication skills, then that’s something you need to take up with him.

How did these men manage to remember special occasions before they got married?

I find it mind boggling that people think remembering birthdays, being thoughtful, arranging meet ups with grandparents is somehow dependant on having a vagina.

Men are CEOs, they are Prime Ministers, they are government pencil pushers, they are construction managers, they are doctors, they are nurses - nearly every job has some sort of deadline, a date to work to. They have to foster relationships with work colleagues, clients, friends. They arrange stag dos, golf days, triathlons. Yes, I am purposefully being a bit stereotypical with the roles, but they function !

They add deadlines to calendars, they arrange drinks and food with friends, they do what most people do in terms of making sure they remember important things. Their boss wouldn’t stand for them missing a deadline, ignoring/not fostering client relationships. Why do some people let them get away with it in their personal lives? You don’t expect the wife of an employee to remember to send the company report out on Friday on behalf of their husband.

I do treat my ILs as family. If I'm going out and I ask DH if we need anything he might say "a card for mum" or "can you get x for dads birthday?" And I'll happily get it. But I, and his family, also treat him as the fully grown adult he is. He doesn't need to be reminded of his families birthdays. He chooses their Christmas presents because he knows them better. Everything is sent from both of us. And he treats me as his equal, not as his secretary who deals with all the boring admin stuff.

OP is annoyed with her DIL for her son's lack of contact.

It sounds to me like your son is hiding behind his wife's skirts, putting it on her, that they don't see you or do things with you.

Adding children to the mix doesn't make family work inherently more the mother's job, by the way. If your son wants to facilitate his children's relationship with his parents, it's still down to him, ultimately, to do so.

I love my PIL, we are in contact most days with updates on our child, either on the family whatsapp group or individually. My husband is in contact with his Mum and Dad every day.
I love my parents too, I contact them most days by text, but my husband doesnt really reach out to my parents so much.

I would have a heart to heart conversation with your son and explain how you feel, he is probably just wrapped up in his own life that it slips by.

Ive always kept in touch with my mother in law and sister in law as they have become my family too! I couldn’t imagine not being in touch with them myself and leaving all communication to my DH. He does co fact his mum and his sister but I do too and have my own relationship with them.

in fact I’ve become my mil career this year due to a cancer diagnosis (sil not local and DH just isn’t a caring type so it fell to me). They don’t mind as my in laws helped us with childcare for years so it’s my time to give back. I do get annoyed at my husband as he could do more. I do feel he mostly appreciates what I do for his mum though.

@MasterOfCake I’ve no idea how they remembered special occasions when they were single! I guess they just had to think for themselves.

Yes and the grandchildren too. It seems the parents don't consider that. People talk about leave it to the sons, then the sons have to ask the boss, their femsle partner, wife..whatever...and it doesn't happen. It's sad

Thanks for paving the way for us, @MadameMaxGoesler. 🫡

People talk about leave it to the sons, then the sons have to ask the boss, their femsle partner, wife..whatever...and it doesn't happen.

That's just an excuse though by men who do not want to have to think about this stuff. They'd rather just pass that job on to their partners, who are likely carrying more than their share of the mental load already.

I expect my husband to sort out birthday presents and cards for his mum and dad, but I will remind him when their birthdays are approaching and chat with him about what we will get for them. Christmas gifts are a bit different as I tend to get all the Christmas gifts for both my family and his, just because it’s easier for one person to be in charge of that. I also tend to buy the children’s presents for birthdays and Christmas though, although sometimes my husband will input and we chat about what their ‘’main gift’ will be (the other things that I choose by myself are a few small things like books, stationary, Lego etc).

Your son and DIL might think that you favour your daughter’s children because you spend so much time with them, and that might be why they put less effort in. It’s such a shame. My husbands parents favour their other sons children, but we still make an effort to see them and for the children to build a relationship with them as they certainly aren’t consciously picking favourites. It’s more that my husbands brother and his family are very needy of the grandparents time (for childminding and general help with things like cooking etc) - we have busier lives but are better at coping by ourselves.

I had a nightmare MIL. Well not totally nightmare, but nightmare in regards to grandchildren.

She adored first born granddaughter of daughter. And I think lived for her. And claimed that she half-raised her.

She couldn't give a flying fig about much later born granddaughter of son.

She couldn't even remember to send birthday cards to second grandchild.

And yet I organised gift and flowers for her birthday every single year, without fail.

And did all the social organisation for family get togethers.

Personally I think it's just a mothers/daughters thing. And daughters twig how much hard work parents, especially mothers put in, when they have children.

Having had the experience of my child being "rejected" by her only in-law grandmother - that's a bit unfair, but they never had a close, or anything like it, relationship, I would tend to think it's a mother/daughter thing.

I honestly did my best to integrate PIL - but they were just too busy with daughter's family, who fair enough needed assistance.

Sometimes you have to take it on the chin. You can't have everything. I wouldn't begrudge niece for all the extra grandparent attention she got. Our daughter is doing just fine - and we're so proud.

In many families, the DIL is not treated well by the MIL, and yet it's expected that she facilitate the relationship with the grandparents.

My DH takes our DD over regularly. Because he wants to. But, they never come to us. They refuse to. And regularly my MIL goes ape at one or other of us for no reason, which is not an atmosphere we want DD around. But she then accuses us of keeping her grandchild from her.

DH is the decision maker for everything here, and I input on how we handle their relationship with DD when MIL has gone off on one. But it's all done for his dad. The way MIL behaves towards him, I think DH would have cut contact a long time ago if not for his dad.

So, in response to OPs post that you replied to. It's not always through no fault of the MIL. It goes both ways. But ultimately, the relationship between the ILs and the family is down to the ILs actual child. Because that's the main one. If your son and DIL split, would you still be expecting her to facilitate the relationship with your grandchildren? Or would it be her fault you never saw them?

This 100%

I see a generation of women continuing to chip away at the small, often invisible things that contribute to gender inequality. Surely that’s something to be applauded!

The after we got married, I was stupid enough to take over the wifework and I started sending cards, gifts/flowers to DH's family. Well, he has a huge family and we started receiving pretty much daily cards and notifications about someone's fourth baby, someone else's christening, third cousin's graduation etc etc etc. I simply couldn't handle it and told DH that he will do his family as he deems fit, I will do mine.
DH continued like he had before marriage - meaning he did nothing. Which meant that MIL and SILs no longer sent me birthday cards. Fine, fair enough.

They all send cards to DH though, even though he never reciprocates. Lol.

YABU and what is worse is that you have facilitated the men in your live being useless at communication by justifying it as “because they are men” and by in your husbands instance doing it for him. Your DS has learnt this which is why he does not communicate with you.

I am not responsible for communicating with my DH’s family that is his responsibility e.g. buying cards and pressies etc., or letting them know what the children are getting up to. If I’m organising a party or gather of course I would communicate their invite.

But exactly “when are you free then? Give me some dates?”

then, when you don’t receive any, push for them with your son and ask wtf he isn’t giving you dates.

I think it just sounds like they don’t have a good relationship with OP and I would love to hear DIL side

What I’ve noticed is that society in general is now more accepting of different personality types. Instead of getting offended because someone is an introvert or naturally taciturn, people who care about that person accept them for who they are.

This translates into familial relationships. Maybe DIL tends towards discomfort with strangers. That is why she happily arranges things with people she is most comfortable around. Maybe the OP’s personality and DIL’s personality don’t mesh. Neither of these scenarios are OP’s or DIL’s fault. It is still ultimately up to OP’s son to facilitate the relationship with his children and to communicate with his family.

While modern relationships with relatives overall tend to be more distant than in past generations, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Today’s children are protected from toxic relatives and kept out of family drama more than in the past.

When my parent, aunts and uncles were children, my grandfather was in the military and frequently deployed. Because of this, it fell to my grandmother to facilitate all relationships with his family. My parent still remembers how abusive and unkind some of his relatives were to my grandmother. She never told my grandfather because she had always been taught that it was her job to suck it up so the children could know his family. My grandfather, however, noticed some of the mistreatment when he came home. He immediately put a stop to it and no longer allowed them to have contact with my grandmother or their children unless he was there to supervise and make sure they treated her well.

Just musing here... If partners are in a same-sex relationship, is it still the responsibility of the partner rather than the son to organise birthday cards and keeping in touch? Or does this literally only apply when there is a woman who can be delegated to?

And for MILs who know that it is their DILs who organise birthday cards/presents rather than their sons, who do you thank?

I mean, when you ring up your sons, do you suspend reality sufficiently to say to your son, "Thank you, sweetheart, for the lovely present and card that you sent", even though you know he probably doesn't have a clue what was sent and the nice jumper or socks or whatever were almost certainly chosen, wrapped and posted by your DIL?

Or do you give credit where credit is due and say, "Please say thank you to Susan for sending a gift on your behalf - she has great taste and I really like the socks"?

In which case, why put everyone through this rigmarole? Why not just tell the DIL that you know your son doesn't care a jot about your birthday and why not just exchange gifts between the two of you (or agree not to exchange them)? And why give credit to a grown man who has done absolutely nothing? It's like sending a small child to school with a gift for his teacher, and while the teacher says, "Thank you Max", she knows that the gift is really from the parents.

Except men aren't small children. And letting them off the hook in this way and allowing them to take credit for other people's efforts does no one any favours. It harms women on a much broader level than just in family situations. There is a well-documented professional phenomenon of men disproportionately taking credit for women's work in the workplace. Why do they do so? My guess is because they feel entitled to have others (women) facilitate them and make them look good. It's an extension of these domestic attitudes.

If I knew it was my DIL organising all the gifts, I'd tell her to feel welcome to stop but, if she wanted to continue, please send the gifts in her own name only and I'd cherish them as being from her and reciprocate accordingly.