To think bullies and evil people never change even when they grow up?

[twoblackdogs]

Just this really.

We had an unofficial class reunion quite recently. There were some really evil bullies in our class, and now they are decent citizens, family people and caring parents, but I looked at them and thought that they just couldn't switch to the good side so easily and fully. How can one be really evil in the school and then suddenly become so very nice and kind and respected, and even doesn't (really?) remember his/her own evil deeds towards others? Do they really forget what they have done to some of their classmates, or they just don't care and think of themselves as good and decent people? Even knowing what they did? Or do they just laugh it off and say "oh, such and such had it coming/was too sensitive for his/her own good"? And everybody just thinks a world of good about them?
I remember my own bully, now a very respected family man. He just sort of laughs everything off. I don't think he's really changed.
Is it possible at all? Can such people change?
I still think that the little shit that once tortured kittens still is the same shit even if all grown up, respected in his job and raising a family.

Yes they can because they were kids. Maybe some were getting abused at home themselves? They might never be Mother Theresa but I believe everyone has the ability to reflect and change.

I often think this when dodgy historical social media usage is unearthed in individuals in prominent positions and their defence is that they've changed - surely one knows as a teenager not to be bigoted/racist/homophobic etc

people change! I have been a teacher for many decades, and some of the worst behaved kids I have ever known are now decent, caring human beings, some in influential places!

Kids have terrible judgement - that is why they are not considered adults - they grow and change

I would also say that some lovely people can sadly change as they get older, and can be amazing at 75 and evil at 85.

Still, if people change: do they really do it so very completely? Or they just learn to say appropriate things and behave in an appropriate way for others? I don't believe in a complete change, this is what I try to say. There still must be that evil thing inside them, they just learn to mask or suppress it, and it can come out if provoked or something.
There are many families where the same mother and the same father have two or more children, all are treated equally, and then there's one child which turns out absolutely evil. Same circumstances, same upbringing - and there's almost nothing one can do. This is what I wonder about.

I don’t think people can fundamentally change. I think they just learn the best ‘face’ to present to achieve what they want in life. Obviously acting like an evil shit as an adult in an overt way is not acceptable, so they adapt. I don’t think people truly repent, take responsibility and change. It may happen occasionally but in my experience it’s very rare.

I believe most people are capable of growth and to really change. Change also comes with experience and maturity.

Truly evil people? No I don't believe they become good.

Kids who bully often do so for many reason. I don't believe every bully is evil. My bully was being sexually abused by her stepdad. I don't believe she is evil. I believe she was a hurt and frightened teen who took it out on someone else. In my case it was very short lived so it's easy for me to look back with sympathy for her, I know that's not the case for many.

Possibly due to medical reason?

I disagree. People are capable of radically changing, especially as we grow older and have more life experience under our belts.

Psychopaths aside, very few people are truly "evil". I think most school bullies have unhappy home lives and many have experienced abuse or neglect of some kind. Their behaviour is a response to deep unhappiness, acting out a version of what they have been subjected to. As they grow up and develop insight and understanding, of course their behaviour can change.

Yes people change. Their brains weren't even fully developed at school (I think it takes until 25?). Also as we gain experience, our perspective changes. We all have the ability to change and grow.

Sadly the scars of bullying really linger and it can be hard to ever think that people who caused so much misery could change. But while some bullies don't change their ways, many do (thankfully).

YABU

I don't believe in 'evil' as a malign force.

I think some people for varying reasons do not conform to the rules of society - not even the ones about not hurting people (or animals)

Sometimes this is a developmental thing, or a product of their environment, which with help they may overcome and learn to at least mimic the rules of society, even if they don't fully understand them.

Sometimes they cannot manage this, or there is insufficient support until they have hurt people and then we have to keep people safe by removing them from society and where possible treating them.

Completely agree with this.

yes I am sure it is, but just as personality can fundamentally change in old age, I also have seen it fundamentally change throughout youth and adulthood too.

I don't believe most people can fully change. I think lots of people can make a good job of covering up and hiding their true personality once they realise that what they do/what they say/what they think is socially unacceptable in polite adult society.

“Switch to the good side” is such a black and white childlike way to think. People are complicated and act badly for a whole range of reasons. Children grow up and change.

I’m sorry childhood bullying impacted you so much. I was also bullied at school so I understand. A couple of my childhood bullies apologised in later life. The rest didn’t. One seems to still be a bit of a dick but the others seem to have moved on and be decent people. Don’t let it drag you down in adulthood.

I strongly believe people can grow and change, especially from childhood. Life can throw so many curveballs that can majorly impact the person you become. I have experienced literally life changing events - I am not the person I once was. I am kinder but sadly more fearful. And I know this is not the end - so many terrible and wonderful things could happen that will keep shaping me. The only constant in our lives is change.

Also, 'evil' is dictated by society's values.

In one society an action would be considered 'evil' e.g hurting animals, hitting children, allowing euthanasia, death penalty, circumcision whilst another society accepts this and does not consider it so.

Teenagers copy their peers and their parents attitudes. Sometimes they say edgy things for shock value.

Also norms change. It wasn’t that long ago the word Tr**ny was used in casual jokey conversation, or on tv shows.

I was a religious teenager. I truly believed the things I believed at the time and was very open about expressing them, saying certain things were right and wrong.

Now I look back and see that I was trying to find somewhere to be accepted and belong and I knew that to do this I needed to fit in with the value system of that group.

There are lots of different groups and a huge variance of what would be considered right, wrong and evil among them.

One of my bullies contacted me out of the blue last year - I had barely thought of her for 20+ years. She was really sorry for her behavious, said a few things about her childhood but also said it didn't excuse her actions. When I asked what had prompted the reply she said it was seeing her child enjoying books (they used to pick on me for reading, which ironically made me hide further in books). I believe she has changed and although we won't keep in touch, having her acknowledge her actions and how much they hurt me made a difference.

That's possible I guess, but its not something I recognise in myself, my views have changed v little since then, and I wasn't really into saying things for shock value

If its general childish meanness or teen drama - i believe people can grow out of it if given proper moral guidance and discipline. Myself i wasn't a bully but i could be a right bitch as i lacked social skills.

However - those who do borderline criminal acts never grow out of it even if they have crafted an image of a respectable citizen. I would never trust those people with anything.

Children in particular can change.

Adults less so.

But children grow up. We all did things as kids that were bad, some worse than others.