To think bullies and evil people never change even when they grow up?

[twoblackdogs]

Just this really.

We had an unofficial class reunion quite recently. There were some really evil bullies in our class, and now they are decent citizens, family people and caring parents, but I looked at them and thought that they just couldn't switch to the good side so easily and fully. How can one be really evil in the school and then suddenly become so very nice and kind and respected, and even doesn't (really?) remember his/her own evil deeds towards others? Do they really forget what they have done to some of their classmates, or they just don't care and think of themselves as good and decent people? Even knowing what they did? Or do they just laugh it off and say "oh, such and such had it coming/was too sensitive for his/her own good"? And everybody just thinks a world of good about them?
I remember my own bully, now a very respected family man. He just sort of laughs everything off. I don't think he's really changed.
Is it possible at all? Can such people change?
I still think that the little shit that once tortured kittens still is the same shit even if all grown up, respected in his job and raising a family.

Ex Best Friend and exDP are lovely people most of the time and both very kind BUT they are both narcissists and bullied me mercilessly some of the time. Both of them conveniently forgot about some of the nasty things they did to me. Nobody enjoys fessing up, least of all narcissists. (I no longer have anything to do with either of them. I don't know what they were like as children)

You seem a very black and white thinker, OP - a bit 'your way or the high way'.

I'm not sure why you posted in AIBU really. Your mind is already made up. "Evil" children, regardless of whatever abuse or crap they may have been experiencing themselves at the time, can't change. Ever. And whilst most people here would be reluctant to say they'd met an irredeemably "evil" child, your class appears to have been hoaching with them.

I'm definitely not a glass half full kind of person but your way of looking at the matter is a bit depressing, even for me.

Do you resent these (in your view) iredeemably "evil" children for having grown into functional adults with seemingly happy lives?

Do you think same is true of the reverse? Nice kids will never change so can never be horrible adults?

I believe people can change. I have. My thoughts, views and actions are very different to when I was a teenager.

Do you resent these (in your view) iredeemably "evil" children for having grown into functional adults with seemingly happy lives?

"Functional" adults can still be very horrible people. Don't need to look far. See how people behaved during covid mess. I bet they were very happy too.

Do you think same is true of the reverse? Nice kids will never change so can never be horrible adults?

Nice as in well-behaved, or nice as in genuinely good people?

By "functional", I DO mean decent - which is the word the OP to describe the erstwhile evil classmates them in her first post.

By "functional", I DO mean decent - which is the word the OP to describe the erstwhile evil classmates them in her first post.

Well, somebody with a job and a family and not in prison says nothing to me about a person's character. I personally wouldn't trust them with anything.

If a bully knows he is doing bad things and still does them - what is there NOT black and white? He does it consciously, with a clear intent to hurt somebody - is there anything left for discussion? Really?

And no, bad family background is not a free ticket to hurt other people.

This is incredibly simplistic thinking, OP. And it doesn’t answer the question of why you posted if you’re sure you’re right and you’re not willing to take on board any different views?

If a bully knows he is doing bad things and still does them - what is there NOT black and white? He does it consciously, with a clear intent to hurt somebody - is there anything left for discussion? Really?

Because you're talking about a child who is not yet fully developed. Of course hurting another person is wrong, but the law - and most people - recognise there can be mitigating circumstances.

Mitigating circumstances aren't a 'free ticket' to hurt other people - but civilised societies recognise that there are circumstances in people's lives which can help produce bad, and sometimes terrible, behaviour. That doesn't necessarily mean the person is beyond help and is incapable of reform, particularly if that person is a malleable child or young person.

I was a hateful nasty little bitch as a child. Particularly horrendous ages 7-9. I bullied multiple people I was awful. At the same time I was being severely abused at home though and was either jealous , looking to take out my anger somewhere and part of the emotional side of abuse would be my mother pointing out certain girls and saying ‘I like her better than you and I don’t even know her’ or ‘she’s prettier than you’ or ‘I wish you were like her ‘ or she would be kind to girls in my class of course I then started bullying those girls immediately I detested them I would even dream about hurting them because I was so unloved and jealous.

Once I got to age 9 one girl I started bullying walked up to me one day and said ‘ why are you doing this ? We could be friends instead’ and she held my hand. I then became absolutely obsessed by her she was a year older and she was so kind to me , her name was Stacey. I never bullied anyone again but for a time I was awful but people can change

This is my thoughts and experience.

This genuinely made me well up (I’m pregnant and hormonal). I’m so so sorry about your mum, but so glad for you and little Stacey.

I think adolescence is a bit early to write someone off. Few people are at their best when teenagers.
That said torturing animals is fairly extreme behaviour.

❤️

I don't think they change, no.

I think they 'forget' very conveniently. Or minimise their behaviour as a 'bit of fun' and 'just teasing and banter', kids being kids'. Of course they mature and perhaps become more conscious of their behaviour - or (my cynical mind thinks...) aware that it's unacceptable to most people and adapt or mask it accordingly.

Listening to parents talking about their and other children is very revealing! I think you can spot the ones who went in for a bit of recreational bullying when young.

stopthepigeonstopthepigeon · Today 13:12
I think adolescence is a bit early to write someone off. Few people are at their best when teenagers.
That said torturing animals is fairly extreme behaviour.

Torturing animals when young is always taken very seriously by psychiatrists. It's a strong indicator of issues such as psychopathy. Many killers started on animals.

It's most definitely not just part of growing up!

It would be interesting to get a teacher’s perspective- most of them probably think bullies are made at home. Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

People who bully at school don't always bully as adults. Sometimes they had their own shit going on and lacked the brain development to empathise with others. The part of the brain allowing empathy doesn't fully mature until mid twenties. Kids by definition also lack awareness and experience. It is entirely possible to grow out of being a shit, and also to regret past bad behaviour. Morals and ideas change around us as well. And before social media existed, people just forgot about problematic views they may have held in earlier eras. Or things they said/did attempting to be funny that they'd now see as punching down and vicious. But we are all the protagonists in our own movie, so none of the villains OP describes will actually see themselves that way.

Someone that bullied me through year 7-9 became a good friend in 6th form. To the point we'd go clubbing together.

They apologised for what they did to me. I also apologised for the really rude and hurtful things I did back in response. To this day I still feel bad for what I did. It crossed all boundaries.

I think the issues however can be life long; some children commit suicide. It should be taken more seriously than it often is, and probably earlier. There have been a few cases of children being unable to handle other children “being a shit”

This.
Especially revealing are all those stories about poor undeveloped bullies with bad background and hard life, which do not mention a single word about the victims of the said bullies. Nope. Who cares about the victims. Poor bullies all around.
Yes, I am very angry about this and don't find it acceptable.
Rant over.

This.
Especially revealing are all those stories about poor undeveloped bullies with bad background and hard life, which do not mention a single word about the victims of the said bullies. Nope. Who cares about the victims. Poor bullies all around.
Yes, I am very angry about this and don't find it acceptable.
Rant over.

I find this especially frustrating when it is teachers' reasoning as to why bullies cannot be disciplined at school. In fact you're the villain if you make a stink about it. But they will surely come down like a ton of bricks every time when a child tries to defend themselves.

I think YABU. Child bullies are children – they quite literally haven't developed all the physiological and emotional maturity to fully grasp consequences or empathy, especially not in a manner that is apt for the complexities of the real world. Of course a child bully may never go on to develop a good sense of these abilities or concepts, but it's terribly over simplistic and unreasonable to suggest that they simply can't.

Kids are just so inexperienced with life and consequences of their actions. You don't know why they acted as they did, but lots of them will have been having terrible times at home. It's not an excuse, but an explanation. I know my DP openly admits to being a bully at school, and is mortified when he thinks back - he's lovely now, and has apologised to a few of the people he bullied (one is now a good friend).

You are not the same through your whole life. Your experience shapes you, and often bullies were victims themselves.