Two 12 year old boys have been convicted of murder after stabbing a 19 year old man with a machete

[AngeloMysterioso]

AIBU to be gobsmacked and just terrified by this?!

I mean what the fuck are a pair of 12 year olds doing with a machete in the first place??

Of course they do but children do not always comprehend the enormity or severity of actions.

OP it's utterly awful, what have we done as a society to have children killing? I've also read today that a 14 and 15 year old have been arrested for murder (stabbing) a couple of towns over from me. It's terrifying really.

If you stop access to benefits what happens to any other siblings in the family? Do they live on the street and starve?

I suppose the parents could get a job.

What? Anyone who kills anyone? What if it was an accident? Or they were groomed into a gang? Or killed their rapist or attacked? 50 years no parole - people can be reformed. We, as a society need to look at ourselves when our children start to kill. We have decimated mental health services, killed off any support youths got, plunged people into poverty. This is a collective responsibility and we keep voting for powers that are making things worse.

The age of criminal responsibility is 10.

They know it's wrong to murder. Still did it. Deserve everything they get in sentencing.

Stop making excuses.

@MagnetCarHair the machete used in this murder was 16 inches long. Horrific.

You know most people on benefits are actually in work don't you? Just wages are so fucking poor that the state have to prop them up.

Horrific. I couldn't believe all the special dispensations given in court to such evil creatures from being allowed not to stand in the Dock to being allowed fidget spinners to help with their nervousness. Totally ridiculous. I hope the sentencing reflects the nature of this terrible crime and their total lack of remorse, with one saying "it is what it is" when questioned.
More stop and search and parental responsibility required.

You would be surprised how easily a machete can be hidden. In the case I witnessed, the kid pulled the machete (which had a blade of about 1.5 to 2 foot long) out of the leg of his tracksuit bottoms. And he was riding a bike somehow (stood up, so legs straight). I didn’t clock it at all!

Now I look carefully at any young boys I see out and about. There has been at least one occasion since when I’ve noticed someone carrying.

They also stash weapons out and about. The police do semi regular sweeps of our local parks and alleyways.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g if you read the article, they literally bumped into Shawn in a park. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that their poor innocent victim was in any way involved in anything gang related so no, not "rival gangs".

Terrible judgement?????? One accidental hit may be.....the 4 hits after and the beating would suggest something a damn sight more than "Terrible Judgement"

Also if they can do that aged 12 then everybody had better run for the hills once they get to the "dangerous" age of 14.

I'm not surprised at all but I work in criminal justice, if you see a youngster with more than one pair of joggers on they are likely holding a weapon, they go between the layers to stop them cutting their own legs. They do also stash them in parks etc. We do need more stop and search and more significant consequences for carrying weapons. The sale of all machete type weapons needs to be completely banned with high penalties for companies circumnavigating restrictions. No one needs a machete or a zombie knife

I think when things like this happens and the children are so young it’s either the parents, but most likely the children have been recruited into a gang. You see it a lot as children are an easy way to move contraband as they go undetected a lot of the time. They are a lot less suspicious than an adult and an adult is more likely to be searched. I don’t think they are even aloud to search children without a parent present? (happy to be core if I’m wrong).

the sad truth is it’s incredibly easy for children to get hold of weapons if they fall into the wrong crowd. Especially if you live in a city.

its incredibly sad that this has happened. I remember studying the Jamie Bulger case when I studied law and I didn’t think I’d ever feel as shocked as I did with that but this is truely horrible.

at that age, children know right from wrong but they do not really understand the full consequences of their actions. They understand that murder = jail but not what that really entails. Hopefully they get the sentence they deserve

The prisons are already rammed and people are being released early just so they can free up some space. The prison system is broken.

I agree that something in society needs to change drastically

I'm pretty sure the west midlands have the highest levels of county lines and the largest synthetic drug market.

We need to hugely increase policing since the tories have been consistently reducing every force in the country away for 14 years.

My point is, it isn't a matter of 'judgement' that you decide to kill someone. At 12 years of age you know killing is wrong. PP was saying that they were at an age where their actions are explainable as their judgement is impaired. I'm saying that is bullshit and 12 years olds know that killing s wrong and it is not a 'judgement' call.

Yes exactly - very well put.

According to the BBC article one of them regularly carried a machete. And no one noticed a child regularly carrying a weapon with a 16 inch blade, or cared enough to tell someone.

It is illegal to carry a bladed item unless you are on your way to or from a place of work which requires the use of such a tool ie chef/trades/artist

Why carrying knives - any type of a knife - can not be made illegal? At least carrying by a minor?

It is totally illegal. But there's barely any policing now, and stop and search is deemed racist, so...

You can hide a machete, jogging bottoms pair one, thick sports socks pulled up over the ankle cuff , joggers pair two over the top, the machete sits either with the handle tucked between the two waist bands or with the bottom tucked into the sock, they also use elastic. Why do you think you see teens wearing so many layers in warm weather, they are carrying drugs or weapons or both, or apeing the style because they think it makes them look tough

The lack of policing and other issues are a big factor in this but so is the complete decimation of social care, if you say where these kids are growing up you really wouldn't be surprised, and contrary to MN consensus, social care very very rarely remove them even when other agencies are screaming for them to, and ice their teenagers they are largely written off by the system.
It's broken.

I think it was more the application of stop and search that was racist. Perhaps the misuse of existing powers was the root problem, rather than criminals bleating about non-existent racism?

Wouldn't you have to walk with like, I don't know, an old school peg leg?

Yes, sorry, I should have phrased that better. I know the poor young man was in the wrong place at the wrong time. What I meant was that these very young boys had probably been able to get hold of a machete through gang connections. I'd hope no adult relation would buy one for a child.

As usual these days, haven't noticed any feedback in news reports or other social media re the suspected real motivation of the attackers in choosing this victim - as if it was purely random. Plus they should be doomed to literally spend the rest of their piece of shit lives locked up (per setting another example), getting physically and mentally abused in every manner, along with their family, who should also just get their life sentence (if not inside themselves), suffering and the shame of public scrutiny from the tabloids etc etc. NO, there's there's no mercy for them or their relatives!!!!! Build tons more prisons for all their kind!!!!

When people say they lack judgement, surely when they did their first hit with the machete they would see what damage they had caused. There is something seriously wrong when they continued the attack.

Could some of this come from violent video games when you restart the game and all victims get up again. Have they lost a grasp of reality.

I remember watching something like D-Day memorial a few years ago and a young lad was with his parents visiting war graves. The reporter had possibly picked the middle class looking family to speak to, and the young lad said he was horrified by the number of graves and how young the men had been (only a few years older than him). He said he played war games on his PlayStation and he said it really brought home to him that in reality soldiers don’t get back up again

It’s horrifying. Wtf - so many issues here. But it just seems to get younger and younger. Their text exchange ‘I’m scared’ the other ‘I’m not really bothered…’ absolutely chilling.