Two 12 year old boys have been convicted of murder after stabbing a 19 year old man with a machete

[AngeloMysterioso]

AIBU to be gobsmacked and just terrified by this?!

I mean what the fuck are a pair of 12 year olds doing with a machete in the first place??

But somebody must be put on trial and if they are judged to be too young-they aren't-then whoever has legal responsibility should be put on trial.
No-one can be devoid of responsibility-either it is taken by the person who did the deed or it is done by those responsible for them.

That is not the point, the point is as children, they are not fully accountable for their actions, as they don't have the judgement that adults do. Their judgement deteriorates further as they approach the nadir of 14, and then starts to develop.

This is not linear. 12 year olds have worse judgement than 10 year olds. 14 year olds have worse judgement than 12 year olds.

I really struggle when it's a man of 19 , to me that's still a child I know legally it's an adult from 18 but it just seems wrong. Someone has to have given that machete to those kids , they should also be brought before the courts .

So why wasn't there this level of criminality in these age groups in the past?

I'm 66 and this really wasn't a big problem in my lifetime. Very occasionally a knife crime, Mods v Rockers (but I don't recall any deaths), even Skinheads didn't go around knifing others.

I think anyone over the age of 9 who kills someone should get a 50 + year prison sentence without possibility of parole until then.

Carrying any weapon - 5 years

Wounding with any weapon - 10+ years depending on extent of injury.

Children know right from wrong.

I'm sure we do need more stop and search but I'm not imagining a machete to be the kind of discreet weapon you can shove in your sock or fits in your average backpack.

You're right and Stop and Search won't stop every blade attack but it will stop some.
If it saved one life a month, that's enough to justify more of it.

Actually, I've just had a quick Google and they can be as small as 10 inches. I had in mind some kind of enormous jungle thrashing blade.

I'd like to see public inquiries launched into the lives of children that do these grievous crimes.
All the agencies and organisations that have contact with these kids to give evidence and a public conversation about the neglect, abuse from parents and general malaise from society that allows 12 year old kids to walk around with machetes.

Jamie Bulgar was murdered in 1993 that was just over 30 years ago.. . Yes it did happen - there wasn’t the publicity about it .My neighbours daughter was killed by a drunk driver about 49 years ago didn’t even make the papers.

i live in a small town, i can think of 3 children who have died under suspicious circumstances ..

It is an absolute tragedy for the families .

As for the ridiculous comment about 14 been irresponsible - billions of children pass through those ages without criminality . Certainly understand that a machete is a dangerous weapon that can kill.

Poor young man, what an absolute waste of a life.

It’s incomprehensible to me why 2
12 year olds would do this - to be so deliberately violent and vicious

Terrifying. Knife violence among youths continues to go on, thug “culture” continues to flourish, both at an increasingly alarming rate. Why carrying knives - any type of a knife - can not be made illegal? At least carrying by a minor? What reasonable excuse a 12 year old might have to carry a knife?

The Telegraph reports that the machete was 42.5cm. Not small in this case.

I honestly despair at people like the previous poster who is basically excusing them because they have poor judgment aged 12.
I tell you something, my six year old knows right from wrong, I bloody well expect 12 year old to know not to knife someone.
Where does it end? The brain in males isn't fully developed until they are in their 20s. Do they get lesser punishment for crimes?
More stop and search is definitely needed, but we don't because it offends people. Ask the parents of the sons who are dying because of knife crime what they think to hurt feelings.
Rant over.

Truly unbelievable. No normal 12 year old, with a normal upbringing, would consider carrying a knife. A 12 year old knows that attacking and killing someone is wrong - even my 4 year old knows that.

The parents and guardians should also be charged with manslaughter. There was recently a case in the US where the parents have gone to prison for failing to prevent their son from killing people - we should be doing the same here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/science-environment-68767184

This is appalling. Prison for life and the parents of these kids need locking up as well. All access to benefits stopped for life as well for the whole of these two families. There has to be accountability and consequences for raising children that are murderers.

I expect we'll hear about how miserable their lives were soon enough but it takes a particularly vindictive and most likely irredeemable pair of shits to delight in this level of unprovoked violence.

It's tragic. He was barely into his adult life but he was a man, with all due respect.

Seriously. What is your point?

Of course they should be accountable for their actions. No normal 12 year old carries a weapon like that in the first place, never mind uses it on somebody.

That poor man and his family.

I could hardly bear reading that BBC report - was shocked that the attack was totally unprovoked, presumed it to be rival gangs or something. One of them regularly carried a machete!

Poor young man losing his life in this way.

Do we know anything about the two murderers and their families?

For a while the attacks have been outside gangs to innocent people. This is sickening and disturbing.

@Starlightstarbright3 do you really think there wasn't publicity about Jamie Bulgar's killing? It was never out of the news! The tv images of him being led away through the shopping centre are etched into my brain I saw them so many times.

If you stop access to benefits what happens to any other siblings in the family? Do they live on the street and starve?

Absolutely horrific. I'm assuming gang-related and that the machete was provided by older gang members. Absent or neglectful parents, or just totally clueless about how to stop the boys getting pulled into gang culture. In saying this, I'm not excusing what they've done in any way, but my guess is they were deeply immersed in violence and poisonous notions of having to show how tough they were and attack anyone they thought was dissing them. I think it's important to get some idea of why this kind of thing happens, or how do we ever stop it?

RIP Shawn.