Two 12 year old boys have been convicted of murder after stabbing a 19 year old man with a machete

[AngeloMysterioso]

AIBU to be gobsmacked and just terrified by this?!

I mean what the fuck are a pair of 12 year olds doing with a machete in the first place??

Of course there was publicity about Jamie . I mean lots of other murders don’t make the news or just the local papers..

I was answering the poster who thinks this is just a modern day thing

@ButterCrackers There has to be accountability and consequences for raising children that are murderers.

Surely that depends on the circumstances? How can you know for sure that your children are incapable of this? For many teenagers who are violent, the main victims are their parents. Maybe these people were tolerating daily attacks and crying out for help? Maybe the child was showing sociopath tendencies since early childhood? Who knows. I admit I know very little about but I suspect if a parent raises concerns about their child's violent behaviour, F all is done about it.

There are inquiries, they are called Serious Case Reviews and they are published on the website of the respective Local Authority.

And to answer another posters query, Im not sure on the exact stats but I dont think we have more child killers than we've had before, although far far fewer than in Victorian times for example

You win the internet for the dumbest response! 🙄.

A child of that age knows right from wrong. Hence the age of criminal responsibility being set at age 10.

12 year olds having machetes is on the grown ups in their lives. The USA have started prosecuting parents of school shooters, perhaps we ought to look st higher accountability too?

Well, actions have consequences and if a family has raised a murderous thug,-either through not giving a shit, being incapable or actively doing so-should they really be allowed to keep other children.

If a pet owner is found guilty of animal cruelty, then any other animals that they may have are taken away, so why on earth would we think it reasonable to allow culpable parents to hold on to other children.

Maybe, at some point, we have to confront the uncomfortable fact that parents who raise thugs cannot hide behind the shield of their other children..

Another story said the boy was likely to have bought the machete online.

I looked and you can get one delivered for less than £20.

I have no idea how a 12 year old would get one delivered, I'm in my 40s and still had to show ID to get my veg knife delivered from Amazon!

I've got a feeling the parents of the boy who owned the machete knew he had it.

@EclairsAndDoughnuts
These 12 year old boys didn't suddenly become murdering thugs. There will have been issues with behaviour before and intervention should have taken place earlier. This is what happens when Sure Start Centres closed and Social Services are starved of cash.
We may get to hear more about their background which would be interesting.

There was an awful lot of coverage of Jamie Bulger's murder, quite rightly. The country was shocked not only about the murder of a tiny boy, but at the age of his killers.
It just wasn't all over social media because it did not exist, but trust me, people were able to communicate at that time. It wasn't the dark ages

They know the difference from right and wrong. It wasn't just one stab wound, they kicked him, slashed his legs and the machete nearly went through the whole of the poor lad's body, the force was so great.
Too many people will be affected by this awful crime. The lads need to be punished, other children, teens and young men need to know the consequences of their actions.
I hope whoever brought/sold the machete to them is also caught and punished.

But also why are they able to get hold of a machete - I wouldn’t even know where to get one and I’m 34

I would. There’s one in our garden shed with all the other garden tools.

Thinking about it, it would be quite difficult to stab anybody with it. It’s meant for slashing undergrowth.

How do you know they are on benefits? I have watched cases of teenagers murdering and many come from families with a bit of money. I mean it is likely they are but still a presumption.

I have a machete, it's not something you can easily buy online, no matter what age you are.
Having said that, criminals are quite resourceful.
My suspicion is that these boys are gang affiliated and weapons are easy to come by in that world.

I don't think I said or implied that they suddenly became murderous thugs. In fact, I totally agree-I would be amazed if their behaviour went from 0 to 100 overnight. Do you think their parents should have realised, as we both agree this was probably a slow train coming.

What on earth were their parents doing about it?

I don't disagree with your point about Sure Start centres at all but why have are you ignoring parental responsibility.

You have held up the failings of other agencies but the only time you have alluded to the parents is to point out their benefits shouldn't be stopped!

Does that not seem ridiculous to you? It does to me.

This is what happens when children are not disciplined properly from a young age. These little bastards will be treated like mini gods in the justice system. Nobody dare even raise their voices at children anymore without being accused of abuse.
You reap what you sow and now society in the UK is certainly reaping the disaster that the last 30 odd years has been

YANBU. I got caught up in a machete attack in my street recently (I don’t want to give too many details because it’s very outing) that involved a boy ago around 15-17. I was really shocked by two things 1) how young and vulnerable the attacker seemed and 2) how beyond useless and dumb the police are.

It’s hard to understand how someone can seem ‘vulnerable’ when they are holding a machete above their head, I know but this seems to be some sort of self defence initially (until he also tried to attack a witness). It really got me thinking about the link between fear, vulnerability and violence, in a way I haven’t given much thought to before. I’ve done a lot of reading about the ongoing knife crime epidemic in my area and it does seem to be all young, teenage boys who are scared of each other! They carry knives for protection and then end up killing when it all kicks off. It’s terrifying! My little daughter will be in a class with some of these boys next year when she goes to secondary school!

I guess that’s what happens when you remove any sort of child, youth and social services and narrow the school curriculum so much you alienate a generation of young boys. When the only way they have of achieving any sort of success and status is through involvement in drugs gangs.

As for the police, our local commissioner has thrown up his hands and said ‘we can’t police our way out of this’, so that’s reassuring 🙄. I also lost my faith in them after they spent a full 25 minutes on the phone with me getting a description (when I had made it clear this was an IN PROGRESS MACHETE ATTACK I was calling about BEFORE attempting to dispatch a vehicle. Useless. I’ve never even had an update on whether they arrested anyone.

I'm assuming gang-related and that the machete was provided by older gang members.

It wasn't gang-related. It was a random, unprovoked attack on an innocent young man. He was in the UK to receive medical treatment.

That is so upsetting. That poor young man was here to get medical treatment for his poor eyesight. Such a barbaric and brutal assault. And one of the defendants had a previous conviction for possession of a machete. Grim.

Did anyone see that secretly-filmed documentary about buying weapon knives on Amazon? Anyone, at any age, can buy a weapon like that in a couple of clicks.

Amazon, as always, gets away with it despite (toothless) laws.

If that's true and one already had a conviction for possession of a machete then I would like to throw my net of pulling in parental responsibility a little wider.

I would like to know who was the judge/magistrate/probation officer/ do gooder who decided he should be back on the streets.

This person gave a judgement that even a spaniel would find stupid and then went off home to enjoy a dry sherry and a twiglet before supper, while allowing this murderous thug to wander free.

So, I would like them to be held responsible also-maybe assets seized and sold to give to the victim's family. If this were a thing, it might make these morally challenged fools think twice before making a choice that puts society at risk.

They family faces the consequences of bad parenting and crime committed by their kids. Social services should remove the other kids. After prison terms for the parents the parents could get a job - and of course the problems of employment as an ex prisoner but that’s their problem. No tax payer money should ever go to these families and that includes extended family as well. Perhaps someone in the family would report the criminal activity the police if their funded benefits were going to be stopped forever. Crime should not pay. The police would also have to take action.

My point is, it isn't a matter of 'judgement' that you decide to kill someone. At 12 years of age you know killing is wrong. PP was saying that they were at an age where their actions are explainable as their judgement is impaired. I'm saying that is bullshit and 12 years olds know that killing s wrong and it is not a 'judgement' call.

This really. It's horrific.

At 12 they are kids. The community they are part of needs to do more to support families. I suspect everyone will blame the parents and society. It takes a village and all that.

How sad. Three lives, and those of the families, all trashed.

I mean what the fuck are a pair of 12 year olds doing with a machete in the first place??

I bet they'll be freed at 18 like Jon Venables and Robert Thompson who killed James Bulger.