Two 12 year old boys have been convicted of murder after stabbing a 19 year old man with a machete

[AngeloMysterioso]

AIBU to be gobsmacked and just terrified by this?!

I mean what the fuck are a pair of 12 year olds doing with a machete in the first place??

People should be tried based on the crime rather than their age. If they're old enough to get a machete and murder someone, they're old enough to spend the rest of their life rotting in prison.

Murderers, rapists and other serious (or prolific) offenders should just get life in prison. No chance of parole. That way the costs come down because there is no need to rehabilitate them. Lock them up and throw away the key, they're away from society until they die.

I can guess how this is going to go. They'll get shortish sentences with misguided attempts at "reform". Once out, at least one of them is almost certainly going to kill someone else.

Sdpbody · Today 13:19

Black and ethnic minorities make up 13% of the general population, but make up 27% of the prison population.

A lot of that is because black men and boys are more (5 times, if memory serves) likely to get prison sentences that their white colleagues, for similar offences and even if they don't have records as bad.

What you're saying is dangerously close to "criminality is inherent in their community."

No idea what your obsession with 14 year olds is or what relevance it has to this case?

With ref to the actual boys involved apparently one has been "out of control" for quite some time (the one who has posed for photos with the machete) and a neighbour said he eventually resorted to putting up barbed wire and fence spikes to stop him continually coming into his garden.

it is not MY obsession with 14 year olds, its the way humans develop. This case is an appalling tradgedy, obviously, I am not saying it isn't. I am saying that considering this perpetrators somehow "more evil" than adults is not accurate, they are at a stage in their lives when they are more likely to be dangerous with a weapon. And just this post, saying one of the boys in particular was "out of control" just highlights the fact that this is not going to be entirley their fault.

Out of whose control???

I saw the grandmother telling people not to "feel sorry for the family".

Don't worry, I don't. I feel sorry for the family of Shawn Seesahai.

The murderers families should be accountable. Prison sentences and the stopping of all benefits and housing.

This is utterly ridiculous.
There are millions of 12, 13 and 14 year olds, in all kinds of circumstances, who have managed to 'develop' and go about their daily lives without picking up a machete and bludgeoning someone to death.
Something is very wrong with those boys.

And that’s why we need to ask why. How come they developed that way. That’s what will help us to prevent these hinge. Asking why and trying to understand what went wrong isn’t the same as saying ‘oh that’s ok then’. As a society we have to ask why. What was different here. How can we avoid that happening again? AND there needs to be consequences and they need keeping away from society.

it is a scientific fact, anyone is more dangerous with a weapon at 14 than at 24, that is all I am saying - these young people are clearly severely damaged, and it is not going to be entirely their fault. It is no good saying they are "out of control" without pointing out that means there is a person or persons who they are out of control OF - and what has that person or persons been doing exactly?

Absolutely. Whilst they do need to be held securely so they can’t repeat and they do need consequences, there are lots of factors that need looking at to understand what when wrong and why. If children in this country are developing in this way then we HAVE to ask ourselves why and where their family, society went wrong. Babies aren’t born evil. I would guess at the following being factors;

• abuse/neglect/developmental trauma - probably born to parents who have their own unresolved trauma - possibly self medicating with drugs
• i would hazard a guess at them witnessing domestic violence and the adults in their life being unpredictable, aggressive and dysregulated. Leaving them living life hyper vigilant - like the jaws theme tune is going around their head all the time. Never truly safe and relaxed.
• No valuing of education around them, probably weren’t getting good sleep or nutrition so no optimal brain functioning.
• probably access to 18+ films/games etc and unfettered internet access
• No sense of community or belonging. Probably when they were little and acting out no one asked why so lots of missed opportunities for intervention.
• services for children none existent or too stretched to deliver what is actually needed.
• poverty will likely play a part
• generically predisposed to cognitive difficulties and reactive physiology. Effects of trans generational trauma.
• Adults not present enough and not safe bases for them so they felt on their own, anxious, and all powerful at the same time.
• plus what all of us had when growing up - adolescent brain - decision making often going via the amygdala without the brakes of the frontal cortex.

I have worked with young offenders and with families generally for 30 years and I have seen this pattern so often. It doesn’t usually result in something do horrific but I wonder what they were accessing online and if gang grooming is at play.

But that’s not an excuse of course. And doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be removed from society to keep us safe. You are right that the adults have failed them. They are horrifically violent offenders that need the strongest consequences but also victims too. It’s utterly tragic.

Heart breaking and sickening but sadly I can’t say I’m shocked. These things aren’t exactly a rare occurrence, are they.
As to whether the Parents are to blame to me depends on what type of parents they were. If they were the my kid can do what he likes type then yes absolutely they are also to blame and should have been hauled to dock. However if they were good parents trying the best to raise their kids the right away and working to improve their despicable behavior I don’t personally lay any blame on them. After all even loved and nurtured children can turn in monsters.

To address the issue of children engaging in violent behaviors, it is crucial to adopt a multifaceted approach:

Family Support: Providing resources and support for families to create stable, nurturing environments.

Community Programs: Implementing community-based programs to provide safe spaces, mentorship, and positive role models for children.

Mental Health Services: Increasing access to mental health services for children and families to address underlying issues.

Educational Interventions: Enhancing school programs that teach conflict resolution, emotional regulation, and social skills.

Media Literacy: Educating children and parents about the impact of media on behavior and promoting media literacy.

By examining these factors and implementing comprehensive strategies, society can work towards preventing violent behaviors in children and fostering healthier, more supportive environments for their development.

I saw that thread. Several people said she should apologise to him and give him time to (hopefully) forgive her. Unbelievable.

Is it “gentle parenting” though or just lack of parenting/ actual neglect/ violence at home?
I’ve know several families who practiced gentle parenting, and I don’t think that things like co-sleeping, not letting a baby cry, explaining things patiently over and over again would necessarily result in a twelve year old thinking it’s okay to attack someone with a machete.

If anyone has watched The Wire you can believe how this happened. It’s a mindset of complete disregard for another’s life. People are just expendable, whether they are a target for robbery, a rival gang member or even if they are just annoying you.

It’s got absolutely nothing to do with gentle parenting- in fact if these kids DID have gentle parenting they most likely WOULD’NT have done this.

Gentle parenting is so much more than not smacking your kids!

I agree it the care and involvement of parents from birth to the teenage years when you need a lighter touch is important.

The grandmother it was reported said don't have any sympathy for the parents. That was very telling.

We need to view education as a privilege not a right.

So, when Mr and Mr Slob want to complain to the school that Jonny should not be punished, should not have to do what he is told, the teacher can point to the door and simply say,

'Off you fuck. you are not entitled to an education. It is a privilege and one that we are withdrawing from Jonny. How do you like those apples? '

I do think that would concentrate a few minds. Let them go and shift for themselves as best they can.

Wrong thread.