To be AMAZED at this cms calculation?

[whatnowws]

Recently split from DS’s dad. He won’t communicate or see ds, so after several weeks I contacted cms. They are getting in touch with him but… the claim is for 730 a month?!? He earns almost 80k? How can this be right?

meanwhile, I’m earning 46k and paying 1,700 in nursery costs and all other costs for ds?

how on earth is that supposed to be fair?! This calculation is also assuming he continues not to see ds. If he wants him a night or more then costs reduce further… basically he can do what he wants and I’m expected to pick up the financial pieces no matter what.

Hi Op completely agree that this seems incredibly unfair and I'm surprised by the hatred you are getting! Surely the point is all parents should pay a reasonable and fair proportion of Their income towards raising their child.This amount will vary depending on a persons income and the manner in which they raise their child. It seems to me a lot of posters have been incredibly let down by CMS and their previous partners but instead of directing their anger toward this failed system they are directing it towards other women they perceive to be better off.

I have no advice OP but just wanted to say I absolutely agree that in principle he ought to be paying 50% of the costs of his child, assuming he has enough money to do so.

I can’t understand why any woman would disagree with this.

Perhaps they are single mums who get even less, and so have concluded you’re lucky - rather than thinking the system is unfair to you and even more unfair to them. Or perhaps they are with men who pay CMS for children from previous relationships, and they don’t like the idea of those payments going up.

As PP have said, why the hell should the answer be state support or you working less be, rather than him paying half the costs of his own child (as he is clearly well able to).

This is exactly what I was saying. If OP can manage to get through these early years, possibly by leaning on free childcare hours etc as much as possible, then longer term it should be easier, and she'll actually be better off.

The problem is finding the £££ now to cover those childcare costs while he's not paying his share. It's a bloody big ask.

Who pays for the benefits? Higher earners? No wonder the country is in the state it's in. Her ex should be paying his due share not the taxpayer.

so your basic costs per child is roughly £1k. Which is an overestimate as you’d pay a higher percentage just as an adult on your own.

So 46k + cms means o/p has a take home of around £3750 monthly. Which for 2 of them is not insignificant.

i have a take home income of £3k, which supports 2adults and 2 children relatively easily.

nursery costs are temporary, and once the child is at school £750 a month will more than cover their half of costs. £1500 for a child per month is a lot with no childcare, and o/p still has £2250 to meet her own costs.

Childcare costs might go down but things often get more expensive as kids get older.

Not to the tune of £1,400 per month they don't.

I am AMAZED at so many of these responses!
Your childcare costs apparently are yours as you choose to work....FFS I thought I was reading Mumsnet not some mad 1950s article where men get to create children, fuck off and not only leave the mother with all the actual work of looking after a child but also to be criticised for working in order to financially do so. Such a low bar for the father's behaviour and his responsibility and just because some of you have had to accept a pittance of CMS absolutely doesn't make it any more acceptable.

he walked out on ds. I didn’t walk out on ds. But I have a financial penalty for not being a cunt?

Yes, because you're a woman. Yes, because we don't have equality. Sexism is alive and well. You'll earn less than a man with your qualifications over your lifetime. You'll retire on a lower pension than your male equivalent. You'll do 70% more housework than a man over the course of your life. We live in an unfair society.

Get angry, join a feminist group and campaign for equality.

Oh it's a joke! I remember those days.

few things

are you claiming 20% off tax free?

if child is over 2 from September you will be entitled to 30hrs free

on your wage - if you run your costs through entitledto website I garuntee you will be entitled to UC.

it is so unfair

@MrsSunshine2b anywhere in the south east £100 is very much the average daily nursery rate. And tax free is only up to £500 a quarter.

Also even with funded hours, that's if the nursery even accepts them, nursery fees will still be huge. 15hrs over 38 weeks only equates to one day a week "free" at my nursery and then you have consumables added for each day attended.

Honestly OP, give up work, move into a friend's shed and spend the £780 on nails, lashes and treats although even then I'm sure you'd find something to complain about.

Normally if a child has two parents earning a decent wage they do cost a lot. They do afterschool activities, expensive sports, are tutored. But once the father fucks off, most fathers will not pay for the standard of living the child would have hd if the parents had stayed together.

It is a lot of money OP granted its not fair its still not half but u will be entitled to more government support with childcare costs, child benefit possibly universal credit depending on ur expenses. U earn a decent wage too. I get what u mean even though it is a large sum u still pay substantially more to house feed and pay for nursery etc thats just the way the system is. In my opinion it should be a higher percentage of their wages. I was getting 39 a month for my son meanwhile horrible ex was taking home 1.1k a month living at home rent free its unfair.

That's shit, op. I completely understand why you're angry and upset.

But why should she have to? It isn't her cost it is both of their cost really isn't it.

I think the issue is that CMS calculations do not consider nursery costs for the child. The reason why is no doubt because the main carers income isn't considered (if it were, it could mean some men not having to contribute much at all if their ex is a high earner even though really they should still be contributing an appropriate amount from their income). In not taking account of nursery costs it means that the main carer bears the brunt if they want to maintain their career unless they can get funded/benefits etc to cover it all

All the posters saying you are getting a lot are completely missing the point. Yes it sounds like a lot but the point is it is not EQUAL. Why should she have to pay more in childcare costs? Why should she have to drop hours at work? Where is the equality when it comes to caring for both of their child. It’s ridiculous OP.

I can’t believe he can get away with paying so little (proportionately and contextually).

The CMS payment isn’t proportionate to his income, or in the context of the amount you’re forking out on nursery costs - as well as other essential costs associated with raising a child. It’s madness that these aren’t factored into the calculation..? Clearly there is no logic behind these payments which completely baffles me.

I really feel for you. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. It’s not fair. This isn’t working and needs reforming.

CMS needs an overhaul. or at least needs to be implemented properly. So many useless fathers get away with paying nothing or faking income to pay nothing. leaving mothers at a financial disadvantage now and in the future (it affects pension and career progression long term)
They have powers, they just dont use them.
If the state paid the CMS and reclaimed fromthe NRP, there would be a lot more willingness to find and reclaim that money. As it is, the state cant be bothered enforcing the rules, because it's only single mothers usually who are penalised for it. So no one gives a shit

This is the reality of breaking up with someone when you have nursery aged children. In the vast majority of couples that split, the mother will end up with the child/ren for 21+ days a month and end up footing the whole childcare bill if she wants to be able to work. The father gets away with the CMS payment which might just stretch to half the nursery fees if he’s a higher earner. The government steps in to subsidise with payments to the mother.

It’s incredibly unfair to women. I see so many posts about marriage where women say they don’t need it because they’ve carried on working after having children, they earn well and have financial independence. It falls apart when they split because the father can walk away, not have the DC or maybe take them for 3/4 nights a month on the weekends and - as you’ll see on here - be considered a good parent because he contributes a few hundred a month!

The bar is so low for men. There are so many arseholes that walk away from their children, don’t see them at all and actively avoid paying any money in maintenance that paying the bare minimum - which is what the CMS calculation gives - is considered admirable.

Lol I won't tell you have much I got then, when I got it.

Just joking, I will

It was £1100 per month
plus almost £1000 tax credits and child benefit
plus what I earned, which was about £500 a month

Oh, and my ex was paying the mortgage too.
And no childcare costs coz I only worked part time in school hours and the kids were in secondary school.

I’m one of those with a self employed exh, incidentally not a man with a van getting paid cash on hand, but a man with an international company worth millions but, as the exwife of the man with a van, I raised DS on my own since we divorced as I never got more than 1% of his salary in child maintenance or any practical help, he just walked happily into the sunset without worries and responsibilities.

This meant I had to have several jobs at a time for a good part of DS’s childhood and despite working long hours, still managed to qualify for tax credits in some of the years (yep, most people getting benefits are working hard, just not being paid enough to be above the breadline). Having £700 a month from the ExH would have been MARVELLOUS but the fact that you get more than what I got doesn’t mean that YABU or that you should be grateful that at least he is giving you more than what people earning less pay or simply, won’t pay.

It is a fucking disgrace, the CMS calculation would be only fair, if and only if, both parents have the same income and similar outgoings.

We women are our worst enemies, instead of telling other women that they should be “grateful” because they are getting more pounds than we do, we should remember we all are getting the same percentage, we should notice we are all equally fucked, and we should be campaigning to make the calculation fairer for BOTH parents depending on their very particular circumstances.

Failing that, we should at least put pressure on laws being changed so non paying parents can be held accountable. The CMS powers are so limited that sometimes it only takes for a parent to ignore CMS’s communications to not pay at all.

Having said that, it is my view that no campaign has ever had much traction because we are either very busy parenting singlehandedly while having jobs to keep or exhausted, and we also have a mountain of stigma to climb: It doesn’t matter how solid your relationship was when you decided to bring kids to the world, there will always be a bunch of people thinking that you are raising a child alone because you were careless and therefore undeserving of support, even if your only sin was marrying someone who didn’t live for long enough.

It’s obviously not fair. It’s a shit system.

I get £0. I did get £28/mth for awhile. I would personally be very happy with £730/mth.

But you are not being unreasonable, I understand your frustration.

its really not.

after tax this is around £3000, then add the £700 maintenance (assuming no pension contributions or student loan repayments which would be even less)

take away £1700 for nursery thats £2000 to pay for absolutely everything for her and her son. Rent/mortgage could be more than half of that.

meanwhile Exh clears £4700 each month; and then pays a measly £700 cms. He now has £4k to spend on himself.

Out of interest, I’m curious if youre actually working full time, claiming no benefits, or if you had your kids years ago and /or have a low paying part time job and have state hand out top ups.

Why should she pay for him to go to work?

Do you see anything wrong with the status quo?