Reform😱

[ForKeenDeer]

Gaining popularity by the minute. Scary times

Reform’s platform may not be far right (I think populist right would be a more fair label) but it is a problem that many of its candidates have very extreme views.

I see two more have been de-selected this weekend for having long histories of making extremely racist posts on social media, with others under investigation.

I think that makes for 9 Reform candidates de-selected for racism so far, this year.

And of course, when Lee Anderson was kicked out of the Conservatives for racism, he immediately joined Reform.

Obviously, its good that the party is kicking these people out (when outside groups shine a light on them) but they should be vetting them in the first place and, if you don’t want to be criticized for being a far-right party, it’s even more important not to persistently select openly racist people to serve as candidates.

By having so many openly racist candidates, Reform are rather undermining themselves.

Reform Will do surprisingly well in the GE but won’t win, but they stand a very good shot in 4 years time.

I agree, although I foresee a scenario where the conservatives adopt some elements of reform to win back their core voters (me included).

Nice to see some balanced, respectful debate on the pros and cons of immigration. I think one of the issues may be (and I can't remember where I read it so I won't claim to have a solid source) is that our actual population is millions higher than the official numbers. I think one source of data may be NHS numbers but I'm sure during the pandemic there was repeated references to people not needing NHS numbers to be vaccinated.

Forgetting whether the U.K. can continue to absorb continued immigration at recent levels, how can we effectively plan the provision of housing, education and healthcare if we don't have a grasp on numbers? I'm suspect some of these may be people who come through illegal channels and are in the black economy rather than officially registered and employed.

We can’t. That’s why reform will win in the next GE.

the system will collapse / more or less.

@ForKeenDeer , why scary?

We can’t. That’s why reform will win in the next GE.

How is Reform proposing we tackle the immigration level issue, the vast majority of which is legal ?
People working in the black market are not going to be using schools, highly unlikely to go a GP or Dentist and probably wouldn't go to hospital unless in a life threatening situation, and won't be using local authority housing, more likely in a dubious HMO, because they don't want people to know they are here.

Is it students and people coming here to work, who are adding the pressure ? With of course a number of asylum seekers, who should be processed a heck of a lot quicker than they are currently, so those who don't meet the criteria can be deported and those who do can get a job.

How are they going to tackle the small boats issue ? This is a very recent phenomenon, certainly a post Brexit issue. I think a lot of this is to do with the increased security around the Calais port, which was the prior chosen route and I am fairly sure Theresa May was warned that this might be a potential outcome of the increased security ?

I also wonder how much of the 2022-2023 immigration figures are impacted by people arriving from Afghanistan, Ukraine and Hong Kong ? Or are these people not included in the figures ?

The thing is legal immigration is approved by the Government in power, it is their job to ensure that there are sufficient services for the entire population, including those they have added with immigration. You can't blame immigrants for poor services, you should absolutely blame the Government.

@FOJN thank you too!

it doesnt matter.

What doesn't matter @Brumhilda ? Immigration ?

No, how they’re going to handle it.
The Overton window has shifted and everything has changed.

No, how they’re going to handle it.

That was what I was asking, how exactly are they going to handle it ? They must have a plan of sorts ?
They can't say 'no more immigration of any sort' and not tackle the fact that the population is still dealing with poor services, or are they hoping natural attrition would take place ? which is always tricky from a running the country point of view, because you need more plumbers than hedge fund managers, more bin men and women than corporate lawyers etc

I don’t think the Overton window has shifted at all, just the right wing vote is being split.

Now, a bunch of people who are fed up of the Tories lying about cutting immigration are moving on to the next lot of politicians making similar promises without having any workable solutions.

And on illegal immigration - we already have a government that has been spending millions on nonsense policies like Rwanda.

They don’t have a plan.

Just like how they’re promising to cut taxes but increase public spending. They aren’t a serious party.

I think they will do better then most on here think.

I think they will do better then most on here think.

It wouldn't surprise me, but how will that benefit the people who vote for them ?

All they can do is suck voters from the Tories (and maybe some seriously pissed off SNP/PC voters).

You can't form a government or even an opposition on just that.

Maybe we should start tent cities on the shire village greens then see how long before they moan.

The same people don't want any houses built for the kids to afford, well they do but not in their village

I was never bothered about immigration, even employed some but then had a business that had customers from northern towns that immigration has changed and they all say the same so now have sympathy with theim.

Do you honestly think any party are going to be able to sort the mess out that has been created over the last 40 years?

People are saying the state pension is a problem but the figures for the public sector pension obligations are frightening.

I knew Brexit would tell us how bad politicians are in this country and includes a lot of the higher civil servants who can't hide behind the EU now.

As a Muslim i can't really relate to this. My sis in law is not from the uk but went to college to learn English, drives, works and this is the norm for the community im from. My oen parents had a teacher that came to our house to teach English this was over 40 years ago.

When i say community i literally mean the community im familiar with i cannot speak for every Muslim community

This is not to say i disbelieve your sil's experience. I find it incredibly shocking. Is your sil not able to kearn English etc now?

You can't relate because it's not really muslim issue. It's more cultural issue within certain ethnicities.

It's incredibly difficult to find stats that are truly indicative (ie that don't have a slant depending on the outlets political leanings) of how circumstances are impacting. Brexit for example. No one can actually demonstrate the impact of brexit because of concurrent factors (such as the effect the covid response had on the economy, and war).

I think the cost of living crisis has sent people into something of a frenzy, hence the rise in right wing support; people are more prone to a 'charity begins at home' way of thinking when they are feeling the pinch (acutely, for many) themselves. And the cost of living crisis is affecting the whole of Europe, again to an indeterminate degree - for every stat that suggests the UK is worse, there's another stat that contradicts that.

I'm Scots, I believe in home rule (ie that a country is best served being governed from within that country) thus I've voted SNP most of my life. I can't vote for them now though, essentially because Sturgeon has destroyed the party (I could be more eloquent on the whys and wherefores, but I'd be here all day).

I'm so utterly jaded by the state of politics that I'm actually tempted to vote reform (just for a laugh, quite frankly. Because if you don't laugh you'll cry, eh).

This is not to say i disbelieve your sil's experience. I find it incredibly shocking. Is your sil not able to kearn English etc now

I find it incredibly shocking. My brother has tried but she's in her 50s and it's harder to pick up at this point. Going to college was not an option for her, she (and most of her friends) are very much home-based.

I have lots of Muslim friends (and my children went to a largely Muslim school) so I know that there's a wide range of different lifestyles and freedoms. But some of the closed communities that seem more prevalent in northern cities (they live in Yorkshire) choose not to integrate into wider society.

I have concerns with immigration but not because I'm racist. It's partly because I don't think the U.K. economy is in a position to absorb the current numbers for the next decade given how strained public services are.

It's also because I believe in integration and some exposure to British values, or whatever you want to call them. It's a two way process where both parties learn more about each other's cultures and society and mutual tolerance is better for it.

And this includes freedom and rights for women where they're not expected to have children at 13 in this country and grow up not being able to participate in everyday life because they can't read, write or speak English. It's the false accusations of racism and misplaced political correctness that stop people calling this out as unacceptable.

@blue345

Going to college was not an option for her, she (and most of her friends) are very much home-based.

Curious as to why popping on a bus to a college is not an option? Has she been told that the natives are to be avoided? Not trying to be flippant but I just find it so sad that women are effectively imprisoned because something something culture and it doesn't get called out by politicians/social services. They just won't go there.

Not trying to be flippant but I just find it so sad that women are effectively imprisoned because something something culture and it doesn't get called out by politicians/social services. They just won't go there.

It is sad. I think subservience (religious or otherwise) can be used as a tool for oppression of wives and a way of maintaining the status quo. If you're completely dependent on your husband for things we take for granted such as filling in a form or going to the doctors, the reality is that your choices are limited.

In my view, closed communities promote divisiveness (and in some cases resentment and a lack of religious tolerance) but this is too often swept under the carpet because we're so worried about being politically correct. I'm not sure that many posters have had an insight into the segregation in cities such as Wakefield.

I ignore the lazy racist insults and bang the drum for wanting a basic level of integration into British society so that all women have the opportunity to enjoy the freedoms that we take for granted.

I suppose potential Reform voters endorse the comments of Ian Gribbin? He doesn't seem to have a very high opinion of women.

I'm not saying everyone who will vote Reform is racist - they are absolutely not - but I am saying there are a lot of racists in Reform. Or to give them their full name Reform Party UK Limited.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/24/reform-uk-forced-to-remove-more-than-100-general-election-candidates-in-2024

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-uk-party-candidates-election-drug-smuggler-ghislaine-maxwell-r5pmh7q5d

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/24374825.general-election-reform-candidate-horsham-loses-partys-support/

https://www.channel4.com/news/two-reform-uk-candidates-ditched-after-accusations-of-racism-and-religious-hate