Would you sack nanny over this?

[YourMerryBrickRobin]

AHave name changed as potentially outing.

Nanny has been with us for 6 years, since our joint biological eldest turned 1 (DH has two kids aged 18 and 14, eldest lives with us full time youngest visits in school holidays)

We have never really had any problems although we will admit a boundary has been slightly pushed lately but we let it go- her long term boyfriend was left homeless, so we agree he could TEMPORARILY move on but would be in the caravan outdoors as he wasn’t DBS checked and didn’t want him staying in the house. He seems a nice enough guy and I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t harm my children and appreciate a DBS doesn’t stop that, but it was a boundary we put in place.

He started coming into the house around the DC while we weren’t there. Got a bit more annoyed, but chose not to rock the boat as Nanny is a diamond

Anyway today- she left our youngest (9 months) in the care of her boyfriend while she went and collected DS from nursery, which is literally a 5 minute walk away. Reason being- we had DDs car seat in our car. She didn’t attempt to contact either me or DH (we are both self employed and always within 10-15 miles of home) despite noticing this morning when she was going to take her to the park (DH dropped DS off, we have 2 same stage car seats hence why it wasn’t an issue with DS this morning)

Im pissed off if I’m honest. Like I said, nice enough guy but don’t know him well enough to look after my child even if it was for under 10 minutes

AIBU?

I just could not have this. Your non-verbal baby being "looked after" by some random bloke who hasn't been checked (not that that proves A.Single.Thing.) because his lazy-arsed girlfriend could not be bothered to take baby on a 5 minute walk.

Honestly the pair of them will keep pushing and pushing your boundaries until you don't know whose house it is.

I would categorically get rid. Please. It makes me shudder thinking about it.

The local laws are what is important. Where I live, I’m reasonably sure that having someone live in the yard is the same as the house unless you have a commercial rental (and are paying the extra costs of that as it affects government fees, it affects insurance etc).

If that’s not the case in the UK then it’s irrelevant. My expectation though, is that if this ends up in an unfair dismissal suit it would be viewed differently to having someone who does not live there involved. But IANAL - best getting legal advice off lawyers, but then OP asked mumsnet not a lawyer.

The employee would be homeless if she lost her job without time to find housing. Homeless does not just mean sleeping rough. The fact that a person could crash with friends or family does not stop them being homeless. There’s levels of homelessness and hopefully she would not end up on the streets, but unless people can typically get a commercial rental with zero notice and no job - this would make her homeless. I can stay with my family for a weekend - it’s not a long term living option unless there’s no real option. But when you’re homeless you have little choice.

Now there will always be cases where instant dismissal is warranted even if a person ends up on the streets. I’m not convinced that’s warranted here and am finding the whole catastrophising a little crazy.

what if the house caught fire while she was out? Well that would be very tragic. Hopefully the boyfriend would have been able to leave with the baby. What would happen if the house caught fire while nanny was home alone with the kids and she didn’t have both kids in her arms at the time? What if one was sleeping at one end of the house and the other playing in the back yard?

It’s perfectly fine to say I can’t come back from this. But instant dismissal is a huge step. And performance management by text is unprofessional. The OP should also consider whether she’s hurting herself more by instant dismissal. What’s her backup childcare option? What if it takes her 3 months (6 months?) to find a new nanny? I can’t imagine there’s a massive supply of live-in nannies waiting around for work next week. What if she struggles to find a new nanny that gels with her children and household?

Sending that text is torpedoing the relationship. If I got that I’d be job hunting. And I’d be ok giving very little notice when I left as top me it implies they’re happy to sack me now, or maybe not.

I do think it’s a very bad sign OP, that she did this after you’d already been openly cross at her for breaking the boundaries you’d set regarding the boyfriend. It just seems like she doesn’t respect your preferences or boundaries. I think once this kind of thing starts to happen the relationship often goes downhill, the trust is so damaged.

The thing is confirmation bias is definitely at play. People who have been abused or who work with abusers (I mean as part of their job) or survivors have atypical levels of concern about abuse.

They can be better informed, and have safe levels of awareness of risks. But they can also become a little paranoid and have disproportionate responses. Ever met a firie that won’t allow their kids to charge a laptop in another room because it might catch fire? Chances are you’d see that as a disproportionate safety response - but laptops do start fires while charging, and fires can kill you, and it is possible to only charge this supervised.

I think there’s a disconnect in how people see this. Partner could be an abuser so this is no different to leaving the child with a random stranger who asked to watch the baby. Or it was a mistake and needs to not happen again, but it’s not worth blowing up an otherwise successful relationship.

It is definitely possible that the partner targeted a long term relationship with a nanny to get access to the children. It happens. But it is far more likely, on the balance of probabilities, that he’s simply a long term partner of someone who happens to be a nanny. It is possible that he engineered or faked his homelessness to get access to the house. On the balance of probabilities it is more likely that in a time of high homelessness he simply lost his rental.

I think people are not so much overly forgiving, as weighing the transgressions differently. Personally, I see inviting the partner to live on the property inviting him into the home. Frankly, if he wasn’t trusted by the family to be around the children he would never have been invited to be there. If she’d left the child with SD (the adult one) would that have been ok? I’d have taken the not in the house to be more like you’re working and should be working. But it’s my home, and my partner lives there - so to me there’s an expectation that we’d spend time together outside of “on” hours. Lines were blurred by OP - and are easily blurred when you live with someone for 6 years. It’s never as simple as “just” being an employee.

You say some people are on high alert but the fact is, abusers follow known patterns of behaviour; and its very easy for non abusive people to avoid those patterns.

So why act like a walking red flag when your job is to care for other peoples children? How many red flags should a parent ignore, and how many boundary violations should they accept?

JFC. Where to begin with this comment. Absolutely appalling and reprehensible. I suggest you brush up on safeguarding.

You can't ignore proper safeguarding of children because it inconveniences you, or was "just the once". This time it was 5 minutes, next time who knows how long it would be.

The only people I ever leave my primary age DC (one of whom has additional needs and is non verbal) with are their Dad, my parents, my sister or their Nanny. Although my DC have known their Nanny for the majority of their lives, I would sack her instantly if she left my DC alone with any of her family, whether that was her DH or her DC, I haven't (and wouldn't) given permission for that.

I would never knowingly choose to leave my DC alone with an unrelated person, male or female, for any length of time. I'm surprised this many people would be so lax about their DC safety.

Redundancy when someone then appears in the same job is illegal!

Or make shit up you mean 😆

Yes she does! Se has been there more than 2 years and has employment rights.Maybe you shouldn't be giving out (dangerous)?advice if you don't understand the basics of employment law

Employment rights in this case I’m sure count for not a lot if the nanny is leaving a baby in the care of someone unqualified. To me, at the least that would be grounds for a verbal or written warning or at most gross misconduct and therefore sackable.

It seems as if OP has gone down the warning route.

Your last para nails it!

It also sounds like after 6 years she’s quite comfortable in the fact she knows the family well and maybe lets a few other things slip too which OP doesn’t know about. Probably before or after the boyfriend stayed the nanny knew she was pushing boundaries but thought no, it’ll be ok if I wing it. Taking the piss massively in my opinion.

I would absolutely sack this woman . She explicitly went against what you said and left your baby in his care. Your baby could have been harmed by this man, you have no idea who he is or what his past would say. Your baby was left with a stranger , which have been upsetting at best, dangerous at worst.
she would have to go.

I think you misquoted me there! I agree. You can’t just make shit up to suit redundancy.

You do realise how employment tribunals work, right? ‘Difficult’ people can make your life, er, difficult. As an employer caution is always wisest.

Yes, I agree with you and @Castle0 . This is the thing OP has found out about - what else might the nanny have done with her boyfriend in the house before now?

She is going to argue that her normal routine was to take the kids in the car, but you had taken the car seat and leaving the baby with someone who lives there, was the lesser of 2 evils.
I don't think some posers realise how expensive and difficult an employment tribunal is for an employer, even if they have a good case.

It would never be acceptable to leave the baby in the care of a man who has been expressly denied access to the house.

You've lost the theme of what I was saying.

IF OP wants to maintain childcare in the same manner as it is currently provided, then she needs to deal with this appropriately. A load of what abouttery is not what I was discussing.

I'm not a nanny but I own and run a business - properly, with real staff.

It's like you can't read or understand a written conversation. Good luck🙄