Why do people say ‘all the parties are as bad as each other’ ?

[Diefrausagtnein]

‘I can’t choose between them’
’Lesser of two evils’
It’s just so flipping cynical and pessimistic. And also lets the current lot off the hook who really have been terrible. Ed Davey and Keir Starmer for example seem fairly sensible and above all honest. Current lot haven’t been. Brexit, Covid corruption, austerity. Really how can other parties that haven’t been in power for 14 years, or ever for that matter, be as bad.

People need to vote for their best local MP who they trust the most and look them in the eye, if possible.

What recent political history has taught us is that you are not voting for a PM. They may well be ousted in due course if they don’t toe the line. The exact same thing may happen to Starmer too. So if you like your local Labour MP, vote for them. If he or she is shambolic, vote for a better candidate. It really is as simple as that. If nobody votes the nutters in we will all be OK in the end.

@behindthemall i find that interesting. Would you say the Tory party has conservative values anymore ?
Funnily my DS2 17 was asking me what conservative meant and I struggled to explain. So conserving the status quo and whatever ‘British values’ are, pro monarchist and pro family, pro small business. But where does the small state, cutting welfare back, privatisation, anti unions stuff come in ? I don’t think Thatcher was a Conservative considering the huge changes she introduced. Radical definitely. Destructive in the long term yes.
I’d like to know what being a true conservative means. Anyone tell me. Not being goady.

What is clear to me is that we need far more power locally politically again. That is the only system that will work. We need far more of our taxation to go locally rather than into some central Government black hole to piss up the wall on trendy policies of the day and waste time in Parliament shouting at each other and getting zilch done, whilst the press make a buck out of the whole fiasco.

@Araminta1003 decent MPs have voted for some questionable stuff. Even Rory Stewart.
And if an area is already prospering and affluent, surely that bodes well for that MP.
An MP in a deprived area that’s seen huge cuts to public spending could be seen as failing because the constituency is on its arse,

@Diefrausagtnein - well areas that suffer should be subject to levelling up and buy in from business and EU style funding and getting people into online jobs etc - where there is a will, there is a way.

It's understandable that they just can't be bothered emotionally investing just to be let down again.
When you are young you can be very idealistic about politics.. but as you gain more experience you realise even the most well intentioned of politicians can't actually effect much change because 90% of politics is crowd control.
There's so many people with so many different views in this country that to stay in power you basically can't say or do too much.
Look at Corbyn.. captured the hearts of the young people.. but completely stifled and unable to get anywhere. The people who loved him perhaps loved him more than anyone loves any other politician but it was ultimately futile. Because he was also hated. That's what happens when you say anything...
That's why politicians make bland meaningless statements.

That being said I haven't given up on democracy. I'll still be voting. But unlike when I was young I do not expect massive changes.
I do want the tories out tho. I do think they really are a shambles who've run the country into the ground by only caring about wealth.
I don't think labour are much better. But the point is I do think they are a bit better.
I'd love the green party to be in power but that isn't going to happen.
However my local labour candidate is actually great. I see him out and about genuinely helping the community all the time and have done for years. I would definitely vote for him. I've not seen the tory candidate once. And I've lived here 11 years.. and he apparently lives in my town! He's never at any community projects.

Often because they don't follow politics, have little understanding of what each party stands for or plans to do and can't see beyond the stereotype that politicians are all 'in it' for personal gain. Which while obviously has an element of truth, ignore the nuances of the degree this is the case, or whether their 'personal gain' happens to tie in with what they the voter may think is a good idea for the country. Also, many people who have a degree of cushioning from the impact of policy change, experience minimal personal difference regardless of who is in power, as no party is radical enough to bring about huge change, so they don't much care.

Infinitely better than this shower.

Well we had levelling up but most of it was never implemented (only20% at the moment) or spent on pot holes in the South or siphoned off to Tunbridge wells.
If buying in from business means more investment from multi national companies, well yes I’m all for that. Plus huge investment in training and education, transport, you name it from central government. There’s a huge north south inequality in government funding too which needs solving.

I say and believe they are all as bad as each other, because a small majority government means that policies don't get voted in, and lots of us feel that government is dictated to by such as powerful corporates, media companies, oversea trade agreements etc. I'll probably vote Labour this time, but I'm not expecting major changes. The working people will still have to pay a stinking amount of tax. People who don't want to work will still get the handouts. People who can't work will still barely be able to make ends meet, and the rich will get richer. People earning £40k as essential public servants will still be unable to survive living in London.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that who wasn't a Tory voter. And I don't think any of them truly believed it, they just wanted to make themselves sound more palatable to others.

Cameron didn’t push the remain argument passionately enough, because he didn’t want to alienate

Yes. Cameron only self servingly included an EU referendum at all in the manifesto to save his own skin because the leavers on the fringes on the party were pressuring him about that. He thought it would help him avoid challenges to his own leadership. he could see Farage getting attention.

Johnson wasn’t ever a leaver he just saw an opportunity to challenge Cameron for the top job and glommed on to it. They both should be absolutely ashamed of themselves for the destruction they’ve brought on normal people’s lives just to advantage their own careers and egos. It’s unforgivable the lying and incompetence.

I hate the current government, but I won't be voting Labour mainly because:

(1) They intend to bring in VAT on private schools and my daughter is at a private school.
(2) I don't like Starmer and think he is absolutely useless and incompetent (and has been in his previous roles).
(3) It's a party riddled with antisemitism and I'm Jewish.

Point (1) is the most decisive issue for me personally and why I will be voting conservative.

I also remember the New Labour years fondly. I was young and there was hope and loads of cash in the economy. But I also remember graduating into the dot.com bust and lots of fellow students losing their graduate recruitment places last minute due to cancellations. I then also remember the craziness of securitisation in the City of London and it was so obvious it was going to fail. House of cards toppled down. Yes we were richer but Brown and Blair sold out to the City of London and convinced every young person with some talent to become a banker when clearly that is not sustainable either.
And then there was the Iraq war. We marched on the streets, 1 million of us students, and the BBC barely covered it. It was so obvious then what politicians and the media do.

A lot of this stuff is driven by macro worldwide stuff beyond our control as well. And all politicians make mistakes.

I do blame the Tories for Brexit but I also blame the stupid British public. And I also blame the young for not showing up to vote. I do understand how it happens, you are off, forgot to get on the electoral roll etc.

My hope for this election is simply that more people actually show up to vote and take some interest in who is standing as their local MP.

Which is all well and good, but in reality you are voting for the party more than a local MP, given how infrequently an MP will deviate from the party. The system in the uk under FPTP is fundamentally broken.

If you vote for an MP who is a member of one of the big political parties, that MP will do nothing - with a very few exceptions in recent years - but prop up the government no matter how shambolic they may be.

Happily I have a tory MP who is a total cunt so I can vote against him as both a shit MP and against the shitshow tories as a whole.

Yep this 👆(exhibit No. 1 my MIL)

Interestingly in my local town I haven't seen any Conservative boards or posters in peoples windows or gardens at all whereas people are displaying for Lib Dems and the Greens. This counters the claim 'they are all the same' as people are happy to be associated with other parties but no-one seems to want to publicise they are a Tory now!

@CurrentHun “Yes. Cameron only self servingly included an EU referendum at all in the manifesto to save his own skin because the leavers on the fringes on the party were pressuring him about that. He thought it would help him avoid challenges to his own leadership. he could see Farage getting attention.

Johnson wasn’t ever a leaver he just saw an opportunity to challenge Cameron for the top job and glommed on to it. They both should be absolutely ashamed of themselves for the destruction they’ve brought on normal people’s lives just to advantage their own careers and egos. It’s unforgivable the lying and incompetence.”

You can blame Cameron all you like and yes, it was wrong to call a Referendum and they totally messed up the delivery of Brexit itself.

However, it is really really important that the great British public takes responsibility in voting collectively to leave the EU. If we do not admit that, then we are utterly and truly stuffed. We do all have some responsibility too you know.

Because they are literally as bad as each other. Tories and Labour are two cheeks of the same arse. The number of defections from each party to the other demonstrated that Tories and Labour really are a uniparty. As for the rest of them, altogether they are all facets of the same pile of freshly excreted poop. I suppose at least poop has a valid use.

Apathy will win this time around. Everyone is fed up and nobody gives a rat's arse anymore.

but it's mostly true, each party promises lots of things before elections, then these things don't happen, and each party spends a lot of time and effort undoing things the previous party did, etc etc

At least neither Starmer nor Sunak are personality types about to take us into WW3. I take some comfort in that fact and I think it is quite important given what is currently going on.

Starmer conned the Labour members with the ten pledges to get ghe leadership which he dropped. He's not honest at all.

I'm wondering if the blowhards on this thread will actually make some suggestions for voting rather than just condemning everyone who isn't them, as illiterate/stupid/whatever?

There are two main parties. Voting for anybody else will not result in toppling those two. I will vote Labour because there is no choice, the Conservatives must go. What a way to vote.

Always the same here with the same old posters who will be at the ready to froth themselves into a stupor, after the election when they and the rest of us, are irrelevant.

IMO two main reasons for saying this:

1. Saves having to strain their brain actually reading, listening and understanding the (very clear and considerable) differences between the parties or
2. The party they support has done something (or perhaps many things!) pretty badly and they wish to paint the others as equally bad to justify still voting for them

I’m not enthused to vote this year, because I fall in a demographic that neither of the main parties address. As a lone parent with a decent income, I’m of no interest to the Labour Party who lump me in with economically affluent and the Conservatives whilst approving of contribution to GDP ethically disapprove of me as an affront to family values. On the whole, I feel that life will be worse in the coming years due to tax requirements of debt spending (whichever party gets in) and if I didn’t believe strongly in voting, wouldn’t vote at all.

“There are two main parties. Voting for anybody else will not result in toppling those two”.

No it won’t, but we are perfectly entitled to vote Lib Dem or Green if they reflect our values more. And we believe their values in Parliament will potentially moderate.