Why do people say ‘all the parties are as bad as each other’ ?

[Diefrausagtnein]

‘I can’t choose between them’
’Lesser of two evils’
It’s just so flipping cynical and pessimistic. And also lets the current lot off the hook who really have been terrible. Ed Davey and Keir Starmer for example seem fairly sensible and above all honest. Current lot haven’t been. Brexit, Covid corruption, austerity. Really how can other parties that haven’t been in power for 14 years, or ever for that matter, be as bad.

Almost all of these issues have been caused by public money being siphoned into private wealth.

@MaryMaryVeryContrary who knows. Let others try ? Or carry on letting things get worse. 14 years is a long time.
Why do we keep letting them have another go ? And another go. Ad infinitum.

Everyone I know who is saying this is voting Labour as the 'lesser evil that has a chance if they don't shoot themselves in the foot again like last time'. The ones I know aren't saying the policies or likely actions are as bad as each other, but that party internal politics and nature of the system makes the parties as bad as each other.

Every party has had issues of internal corruption and wielding power for their own gain. Every party has major scandals that don't get resolved well and issues with accountability. Every party is still a group of individuals that have both their own broad range of opinions, with many shifting their expressed opinions depending on audience and how the wind blows because that's how they maintain their jobs and power. The institution of political parties results in them as a whole largely being as bad as each other in these ways, much like corporations, with individuals who try to change things from within still needing to play this corrupt game to have any traction. How to resolve that or if there is a way to improve that is something people have debates for ages, some more cynical than others in it.

Tories are to blame for bringing such a badly thought out referendum, with those of the now Reform Party taking some in using successive governments habits of blaming the EU to their own advantage for power.

None of the big political parties were great about campaigning for Remain though. Labour and Tory offerings were very pathetic, with nothing beyond the status quo that both had used for years as a scapegoat when things were going on that the British public didn't like. Both parties could have put forward a much better campaign that actually discussed possible changes that could happen while in the EU, but chose not to for reasons likely to do with trying to appease everyone. There were also members of both parties that were and are pro-Brexit.

I'm in a largely safe Labour seat, and am really hoping one of our local independents is able to get the resources together to run.

But I am asking why scrapping it is damaging? It’s just such a pile of rubbish so it going isn’t really causing damage

He said that he’d let a loved one suffer on a waiting list and not go private, despite having millions.

How do you know how wealthy he is? Probably far less so than you imagine.

If we are that short of money why this ? Now ?
Pure pork barrel politics. Much like the off hand comment about send money back to the wealthy south.
My point was if there’s further austerity to come, why do this ?

I think if you really looked into how the Tories have slowly sold off all our assets (for peanuts), you'd be shocked. They're fucking scum. I've never known a more corrupt, lying, thieving bunch of parasites ever. Tories and whoever vote for them only give a shit about themselves. Austerity doesn't work. Any decent economists would tell you that.
How can some billionaire scumbag really have anything in common with the average Joe? He was going on about remembering when he had his first flat at 25... how hard it was on tv the other night.. Jesus Christ. And he says it with a straight face!

Absolutely deluded. And everyone who votes for them.

Historically they’ve always looked after themselves, their cronies and their families Tax evasion , misuse of funds etc, and they get away with it because of some loophole they created or because they’re pals with someone “high up”

Because they are....

I honestly think that the differences are too big for people to contemplate. Five more years of Tory government and the UK will be unrecognisable. Pulled ever further to the right by whatever Faustian pact they would have to make with Reform UK, they would destroy the NHS, leaving a tiny rump providing emergency care, dismantle the welfare system, remove all workers rights, secede from the ECHR, and introduce Farage's much-trumpeted flat rate tax system (which only benefits the wealthy). You think things are bad now? This is nothing compared to "Britain as Singapore" - a project first dreamed up by Liz Truss and her sidekick. Even the most diehard Tory supporters know this is true. "There's no difference" is the party line. Heaven help an electorate stupid enough to swallow it.

I think it's chilling the things that Sunak said and they way he delivered them in the itv debate, the press think he 'won' and no one is particularly bothered

Saying without hesitation he'd use private healthcare means he DGAF about the long term prospects of the NHS and he thinks people should move on and those who won't be able to afford private healthcare don't matter.

I feel the country is pretty decrepit and crumbling right now with services at the same level as in 1997. The Blair/Brown years weren't perfect but we were in a much better place and certainly those in government didn't act this way. I wonder if not for the global financial crisis if they would have stayed in power. I also think in years to come more corruption from the current lot will be revealed

Additionally Sunak focusing on a potential £2000 tax increase per family over 4 years isn't that bad?

I would gladly pay £500 per year for the 5 of us to live within a better society as I'm sure most people paying taxes would

This.

It's a tactic to wave away indefensible behaviour by creating false equivalencies and both sides the argument to justify their vote

People who say they’re all the same are not paying attention for whatever reason often because of difficult life circumstances or they are quite vulnerable themselves or are really thick or are so rich nothing matters to them. It’s the least engaged people who are going to be the most vulnerable to policies that will affect them.

So your explanation of how all politicians are the same is to reference when one of the candidates for PM said the exact opposite to the other one?

I don’t think they are all the same, just varying degrees of awful. All are awful but all have certain policy areas where they are slightly less awful than the opposition
I firmly believe that if the voting paper included a ‘none of the above’ option that would garner the majority of votes currently

I have NEVER watched an interview where a politician answers straight questions with straight answers. You name the politician there will be interviews where they avoid answering a straightforward question.

For that reason i have zero trust in their words.....EVER.

I will never ever vote for a politician who acts like that or allows anyone within their party to act like that. Doesnt leave me with much choice but to hate the lot of them.

The Royal Mail is the latest thing that's boiling my piss. They sold it off on the cheap and now it's going to a Czech billionaire?
That's bound to end well.
How much is a first class stamp going to be next year?

Cameron didn’t push the remain argument passionately enough, because he didn’t want to alienate the more extreme wing of his party. He put the party first always. Same can be said of Corbyn.

@KimberleyClark absolutely. And he couldn’t say austerity has caused the mess the country is in because it was their needless purely ideological small state obsession and austerity that caused the many issues the country faced.

This. I've lived through many a Labour and Conservative government and they really are all the same. Promise you the world during canvassing but deliver next to none of it.

That's why it flips between the two major parties. Everyone gets fed up with the incumbent, gives the others a try. Elects them again "to give them a proper chance" then realises they're just as awful so it's back to the others. Never improves regardless of who is in.

Just not true. I work in a role adjacent to politics so generally informed on party politics.

My political values are conservative, however I do agree the current government has been shambolic. So where does that leave me? Either voting against my general values and political views or voting for a shambolic government (further complicated by the fact my local Conservative MP has been great, so I have no reason not to vote for him other than the behaviour of his colleagues).

So yes, my vote does come to a lesser of two evils.

I think it’s because over time you realise that once they are in power, they are all basically incompetent.

OP it’s this.

I disagree. I have seen since life improve dramatically under Labour, and the standard of living drop dramatically under the Conservatives (both this lot and Thatcher/Major). Labour don’t vindictively starve out opposing councils in the way the Tories do. Unfortunately good times can’t last forever and people become despondent and let the other team have a run out. But I will say this emphatically - life has been much shitter under this Conservative regime for the entirety of their time in charge than it was under Labour at their worst (2009/2010).