It's a private school one.....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Many threads on MN ... I want to know this: why haven't Labour given any info on their modelling of what will likely happen and the different scenarios that could play out when they impose VAT? It matters - because if they get thus wrong ... and a shed load of kids leave private because their families have scrimped to send them there ... the state sector in some councils will quickly be overwhelmed with kids needing state places that does not exist....which could be a lose lose for everyone! You don't build a new school and resource it in a month.... these things take years . I feel for all kids as they will all lose out if this happens and labour having got contingency in place.
How would you feel if your child is in a good state school , perhaps they get some SEND support...and suddenly there is an influx of private kids as they need the spaces. Class sizes go up to 40, all SEND provision gets cut as not enough funds, extra curricular gets cut and teachers are even more stressed, so the vicious circle if teacher shortages now intensifies....the spiral continues for years to come. Who has won?? No one ....
What are your thoughts on this ?
I don't disagree with the principle that private is a luxury and probably should pay VAT... what I disagree with is the notion you can just implement something that will fundamentally shift things on a seismic way in one big bang. No thought whatsoever. Tell me if you agree or have a different view and why ?

Both policies are just cheap distractions policies. I'm also voting Lib Dem. Though, as there are only two serious contenders. They couldn't possibly do a worse job that Labour and Tories have over the past 30 years!

The question as to whether private schools are charities has everything to do with Vat

It absolutely doesn’t. They are entirely separate where education is concerned. Half of schools are not charities. They do not have to charge VAT because of VAT legislation. Their charitable status is irrelevant.

I am also surprised at the lack of knowledge in this area and the fact that some people still think that the VAT position of schools is linked with charitable status.

Charities claim back Vat on all sorts of things and are exempt from Vat in certain areas.

The input and output VAT position for charities is much more complicated than you are suggesting.

The claim that providing education these days justifies charitable status is disingenuous. As my MIL would say "They're laughing behind their hands" when this is suggested.

Definitely, both are silly policies that are created to distract. But will equally never happen.

I know the Lib dems won’t win at a country level but lord I can’t vote for the others!

Maybe a cup cake doesn't, but people need affordable bread! If some people have the spare cash for cupcakes as well, why knock it? Of course bakeries are providing a public benefit. Profiting from providing a public benefit is different from most schools, though, most of which don't make a profit.

Im arguing that those that claim they are charities really aren't and should be subject to vat. An organisation which occasionally lends it's facilties out to tick a box on the charity commission reporting is hardly compatible to fighting cancer, supporting the poor, preventing suicide now it it? The list could go on. I object to them being treated as such.

It's interesting to do a little digging about bursaries and scholarships if you're that way inclined.

But I only mentioned charitable status because I think being seen to be doing something for the common good would be excellent PR for private schools. With some honourable exceptions they tend not to-and in fact, sometimes make things worse!

I’m not sure how many more ways I can explain this. Whether or not a school has to charge VAT has nothing to do with charitable status. Lots of private schools are not charities. They do not have charitable status. They do not need to charge VAT because of VAT legislation.

I could improve my salary alone by 34% by moving there… i already have connections and an offer whenever I need it so no luck is needed 😉

@1dayatatime yes, to answer your hypothetical question, I would still support it. But then I would get rid of both private education and private healthcare altogether as I fundamentally disagree with buying privilege (see also: raising inheritance tax and taxing unearned wealth). So, whilst I'm sure you're lovely, unfortunately it looks like we really wouldn't get on! 😉😂

Do you want me to help you pack a bag?

Because I'm struggling to see why anyone should care about you leaving if you're clearly not particularly committed to the society in this country. But then this is the real view of those that use private schools isn't it - an arrogant assumption that they should always be able to buy privilege and when they can't, they'll take their ball away like a spoilt child.

This issue is no longer about private schools and vat - its about how much hate and how many insults people can direct at private school parents.

Why should I share my ball with you when I’ve spent 5 years at university and worked 70 hour weeks to get where I am?

You should care about me leaving because I’m contributing far more to the system than the likes of people like you.

Why do you deserve it? I’m not working for you. I’m working for myself to better my life and that of my children.

Is it vitriol for private school parents or whingeing private school parents?

The vast majority won’t whinge and will just pay up quietly the relatively small increases that will actually be brought in gradually by schools, in the same way they have every other large increase in fees that they have been challenged with over the years.

@Cush21 ,

If you really hate taxes and want great international private schools, I would recommend Singapore instead of Aus. Changi is a fantastic airport too, easy for weekends in Malaysia and Bali.

‘Buying privilege’

Sorry, please explain again who’s paying for your socialist ideals if us ‘privileged’ folk don’t exist.. 🤣😂🤣

Hate and vitriol where? Just not an abundance of sympathy for then facing something 94% of us are already dealing with. What kind of response do private school parents think they deserve from the rest of us?

@Cush21 "I'm contributing far more to the system than the likes of people like you."

Wow. And what exactly are 'people like me?'.

Do you think you are the only one that is successful? The only one that went to university, the only one that works hard, the only one that wants the best for their kids. Are you the only one who earns money and pays taxes? Just because I don't believe in buying privilege (and at least be honest with yourself because that is what you're doing, you just clearly don't like being called out on it), doesn't mean I'm not all those things you also are. The actual difference between us is that I don't think pushing my way to the front of the queue is ok. But by your actually quite nasty 'people like me' comment, you clearly do think the 'likes of me' are shit on your shoes. And that's the arrogance of privilege. But being able to write the expensive cheque doesn't make you better or more worthy than anyone else

@disappointing2 "This issue is no longer about private schools and vat - its about how much hate and how many insults people can direct at private school parents."

A really good thing to do is ignore the ridiculousness on both sides and just carry on with the discussion.

Many of these scholarships are not fully funded and often help parents who can afford a large percentage of the fees.

Its not for the public's benefit but for those already at an advantage to effectively given a discount and further entrenches division. It's not a charity.

Some people don’t exist without us writing our cheques… remember that.

That’s not the arrogance of privilege. That’s the arrogance of knowing that I provide for more than just my family… a fucking lot more

You still haven’t explained who is funding the lives of people who draw on the system if people like me - the ones you have so much vitriol against - don’t exist.

The UK government NEED people like us. They don’t NEED the ones who do nothing but draw the cash out.

You should show a little more appreciation and save that bitterness for something else than those footing the bill..

This is thread is a wonderful example of a crappy society. Rich people Vs poor people and everyone getting more and more angry with each other. Scanty mention of the powers that be.

Wow you're arrogant aren't you. A whole lot more than money goes into keeping us all ticking. What a horrid snob.

The UK government NEED people like us. They don’t NEED the ones who do nothing but draw the cash out.

Who are you referring to? Pensioners? Low earners?