It's a private school one.....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Many threads on MN ... I want to know this: why haven't Labour given any info on their modelling of what will likely happen and the different scenarios that could play out when they impose VAT? It matters - because if they get thus wrong ... and a shed load of kids leave private because their families have scrimped to send them there ... the state sector in some councils will quickly be overwhelmed with kids needing state places that does not exist....which could be a lose lose for everyone! You don't build a new school and resource it in a month.... these things take years . I feel for all kids as they will all lose out if this happens and labour having got contingency in place.
How would you feel if your child is in a good state school , perhaps they get some SEND support...and suddenly there is an influx of private kids as they need the spaces. Class sizes go up to 40, all SEND provision gets cut as not enough funds, extra curricular gets cut and teachers are even more stressed, so the vicious circle if teacher shortages now intensifies....the spiral continues for years to come. Who has won?? No one ....
What are your thoughts on this ?
I don't disagree with the principle that private is a luxury and probably should pay VAT... what I disagree with is the notion you can just implement something that will fundamentally shift things on a seismic way in one big bang. No thought whatsoever. Tell me if you agree or have a different view and why ?

Yep spoilt.

Because there will be kids that that is happening to whose parents can't afford to put them in private. So they move to another state, or school refuse, or stay and put up with it. It's shit but you are in the lucky 6%.

I don’t understand this obsession with VAT on private schools? It’s bonkers to me how giddy ppl are about it. Like why?

I absolutely understand how fortunate we are to make the choice we did - I had an utterly miserable time at my local comprehensive and there was no way my parents could have afforded to take me out. There were no other schools in the area I could have moved to either, so I just had to endure it. I’ve had a lifetime battling low self-esteem as a result. My daughter is lucky that we could do things differently for her. And there’s no chance we’ll move her now - we’ll find a way to keep her there. But that doesn’t make her spoilt!

I think this has summed it up beautifully.

Lucky is not the same as spoilt. My daughter is fortunate we could afford to move her. How does that make her spoilt?

No but calling kids "spoiled", sneering at "poor Tarquin who'll have to slum it with the plebs" etc absolutely is and wouldn't be tolerated on any other subject. Or can I sneer at the vicious bastard thugs who terrorised my son at his state school so that he's still scared to go to the local shop around the time there's the faintest chance they might be there, or take his bike to the park. My other child who developed EBSA within three weeks of starting at the school. They both know how incredibly lucky they are but they are not spoiled, pampered, princes/ princess with room for a pony and I am not a sharp elbowed snob. I'm a teacher desperate and in debt, trying to get her kids to adulthood with some semblance of mental health and this will make that harder. And I'm not the only one.
I don't deny for a moment that he state needs billions more in funding and a much much bigger policy than this, that ALL children should have a safe and secure place to be. But this will not even begin to achieve that, it's just a popular, stamp down policy that refuses to acknowledge the kids like mine because then they'd have to admit the state has failed them and will continue to do so with or without this.

Why would they give info on their modelling? That's for them

They won't put class sized up. They fight against it every time someone asks them to put class sizes up now

@lemonmeringueno3

If average fees are £20k then VAT will raise £4k - that's what we receive per pupil in state primary schools in our area. So every private school pupil will pay for a state primary school place.

some will argue that by paying taxes and not using state education they’re already contributing twice towards the education budget.

No it’s not. And I absolutely don’t have a problem with anyone who disagrees with the principle of private schools. I never contemplated sending my daughter until things hit crisis point at her state secondary and I’ve recognised a number of times how very lucky we are that we could afford to make that decision.

But calling children spoilt simply for going there or (as in another thread) calling people vile bigots and having “cuntish reasons” for sending their children is pretty vitriolic.

Plenty of places. Just not in grammars. Which means plenty of faith schools and other non selective ones.

https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2023/06/07/privateschools/

I wouldn't call someone 'spoilt' for going to private school - being spoilt is more about behaviour than circumstance - the obvious word to use is 'privileged'.

I wouldn't argue that private schools are a good outcome for those who attend them, but it is a case of 'rescuing' the few while leaving the masses to drown and I do get the impression that many of parents who are complaining about the tax are simply oblivious to those masses; and the fact that many could not afford private education even if they existed on bread and water and dressed in rags.

The wider problem is wealth inequality in the UK - inequity of reasonable pay - CEOs on millions while their staff are on min wage being topped up by UC, creating a tax burden that is also crippling average earners.

Really, are you a bit hard of thinking? I’ll need to find another £800 a month, possibly with a couple of months notice, and you “like” can’t understand why that might be a worry?

Oh great, another VAT private school thread.

When are you lot going to understand that the very act of sending your child to a private school means you are rich and your children are spoilt, and the rest of us couldn't give a shiny shit how upset this proposed policy makes you.

Private schools are a luxury, and therefore should be taxed appropriately. I don't care how many holidays, or other apparent sacrifices, you have to forego to send your kids to a private school. I don't care how hard you apparently work. You can afford something the very large majority of the population can't. That makes you privileged and you are buying yet more privilege for your children. At least be honest. You are paying to get to the front of the queue in life. So don't be surprised when the rest of us get bored with your whinging and scaremongering about how this policy will impact you and (dubiously) us

@BibbleandSqwauk
"Or can I sneer at the vicious bastard thugs who terrorised my son at his state school so that he's still scared to go to the local shop around the time there's the faintest chance they might be there"

Yes. You can. Personally I would do more than sneer.

What you can't do is say that state schools by definition are populated by kids like that. Any more than I will characterise private school kids by the ones who relentlessly bullied my godson at his prep school and then at his public school. They were little shits. And would have been little shits regardless of sector. People are inclined to get defensive when it is implied-or in some cases openly stated-that the only way to avoid little shits is to avoid state education.

Those of us who moved our kids to avoid awful bullying etc are not remotely oblivious to the situation.. we're all too aware of it. And IF I actually believed this policy would help to find more teachers, fund building, support CAMHS, provide social support so the anti-social behaviour that causes such mayhem and starts at home would change, then I'd suck it up and understand. But it won't do that. It's a show. An actual funded policy to do the above would cost many times what this will raise. Me leaving my kids in the situation they were in when I (just) had the option to save them from it would have been bad parenting and my first duty is to them.

This -no way am I going to teach again in a state school after working in an indie where the remuneration and conditions are so much better. Luckily my school is still oversubscribed for the coming year at least, ( ( and will be also be able to claim back a lot of VAT spent on building projects over the last few years) but if redundancy does happen I will go back to my previous career - not being redeployed in state!

Really, are you a bit hard of thinking? I’ll need to find another £800 a month,

So VAT will cost you 9.6k extra a year?

Whilst it may not have an immediate impact and people will carry on and yes some will struggle to find the extra 20% but most likely will somehow where it will impact state schools is for potential future users of private schools choosing not to and they are therefore competing for the yearR , year3, year7 places alongside those already in the state system. They won't be filling undersubscribed schools but competing alongside those who may have got places at certain schools and now won't.

Further some of thr smaller less financially stable schools may close and again whilst those already there may end up at undersubscribed schools those who may have gone there in future are directly competing for places alongside others their age

In order to give credibility to a policy.

That's normally what politicians and candidates do. For example "I will increase spending on the NHS by x billion by raising NI by y%" rather than the much vaguer and less credible "I will increase spending on the NHS by cutting wasteful Government spending and closing tax loopholes ".

Not that it really matters because the average voter would much prefer to be lied to and vote for a candidate that offered increased Government spending without having to raise taxes.

No you're right, spoilt isn't the right word. Lucky, fortunate etc but not spoilt.

It affects the 6% and probably only a small proportion of them. It really isn't something the 94% has to give a shit about though.

Feasible if 2 kids at private school at around £20k fees.