It's a private school one.....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Many threads on MN ... I want to know this: why haven't Labour given any info on their modelling of what will likely happen and the different scenarios that could play out when they impose VAT? It matters - because if they get thus wrong ... and a shed load of kids leave private because their families have scrimped to send them there ... the state sector in some councils will quickly be overwhelmed with kids needing state places that does not exist....which could be a lose lose for everyone! You don't build a new school and resource it in a month.... these things take years . I feel for all kids as they will all lose out if this happens and labour having got contingency in place.
How would you feel if your child is in a good state school , perhaps they get some SEND support...and suddenly there is an influx of private kids as they need the spaces. Class sizes go up to 40, all SEND provision gets cut as not enough funds, extra curricular gets cut and teachers are even more stressed, so the vicious circle if teacher shortages now intensifies....the spiral continues for years to come. Who has won?? No one ....
What are your thoughts on this ?
I don't disagree with the principle that private is a luxury and probably should pay VAT... what I disagree with is the notion you can just implement something that will fundamentally shift things on a seismic way in one big bang. No thought whatsoever. Tell me if you agree or have a different view and why ?

Yes they will

It’s why it baffles me anyone is for this change. It’s all or nothing sadly when it comes to VAT.

I should know, but not UK based. But it is a business, so they should be giving you a VAT invoice, even if it's it's zero rated (I would think anyway, no doubt an accountant will be along to correct me in short order). I would ask for one anyway, just to be annoying 😂

Right. So let’s say 1000 private school pupils lose their places in private. Which means 1000 state places are needed. You’ve said “there are places” available, but “not the ones” the parents would want - i.e, there are only places in substandard schools.

So you think it’s “a good thing” (your words) that 1000 ex-private kids get moved to substandard state schools, but it’s not fair, and in fact “ludicrous” to suggest that kids at better state schools get moved into worse ones.

So you do, indeed, have a bias against privilege.

Fwiw, I don’t think it’s “right” or “a good thing” for any child to be moved to a substandard school. That’s the difference.

I don't know any who have time to come in and read with the children! We did have a grandparents reading with children scheme, but got shut down by COVID sadly.

If a private school parent can’t afford the 20% vat, they aren’t going to use he money they save for going to state to benefit the school. They’ll spend it on enrichment activities for their child and ways to ensure their child spends as little time in school as possible.

Also doctors and dentists locally send their kids to local state primaries then move to private or grammar for secondary quite often. But they are invisible at the primary level and only become visible and active and present (and available for talks etc) at secondary. When, I presume, there is prestige attached to their involvement.

There are plenty of state school places. The private kids will be given places at these schools, yes some will be out of area, some will be have low Ofsted scores. They won't overcrowd the more popular schools and they won't move it's own pupils to other schools as this is unfair on staff and the children who already attend the school. It's not just about private kids 🙄 . If you want to send your kid private that's your choice, just don't expect to get into the good state schools when it all goes tits up.

I don't want to annoy my lovely piano teacher who is a one-person business. I might ask the school about where VAT is applied and where it isn't. Might be able to get cheaper music lessons elsewhere!

I'm sorry are you seriously suggesting existing state pupils should be moved to accommodate new joiners?

Nope, I’m meeting your ludicrous suggestion with an equally ludicrous one. That’s my whole point.

Will this also affect children at state school who have music lessons outside school?

Any children wanting to move into a state school at a point other than the usual admissions round are treated the same - if there is no space then they join a waiting list and when there is a space it's offered according to the published admission criteria.

@50DiddlySquats I really don't understand the point you're making.

What exactly was my suggestion? I merely referred to long standard in year admissions criteria. Which you seemed to find offensive for some reason?

I hope they've factor in the additional VAT cost to the taxpayer for all the forces children that the taxpayer funds to attend private school!

Sorry, but why on earth would kids at state schools have to move to make space in the "better schools" for kids who have had to leave private because their parents have entered into financial commitments that they are no longer able to sustain?

This is a really bizarre idea. It isn't a bias against privilege to suggest that the children who will have to move are the ones whose parents have failed to plan properly. Of course, it's unfair because the children are not in the least bit responsible for the poor decisions of their parents, but unfortunately, all of us have to live with whatever mistakes our parents have made in our upbringing.

Suggesting that other children could move to make space for your kids in the "better state schools" is taking entitlement to a whole other level. Why should other people's kids have to suffer the consequences of your mistakes?

Don’t be disingenuous (altho I’m not expecting you to admit your lark).
I don’t think they’re ok for anyone. That’s where Labour should be focusing its attention.

I believe their point is that existing admissions criteria shouldn't possibly apply to "ex-private" children.

Yep. It will impact tutoring, holiday clubs, after school clubs, lessons for languages etc.

Education isn’t zero rated for VAT. It’s exempt. There is a big difference.

OMG another one??

because nobody gives a fuck about tiny percentage of population who will be most likely voting Tory anyway. Get over yourself; there isn’t THAT many private school pupils whose parents really can’t afford the increase so that the state schools will swell. There are some, fine, they’ll just to get over that fact, just like many other people got over policies they didn’t agree with during tory rule.

just accept that IT IS A VERY MINOR ISSUE in the grand scheme of things.

labour’s general attitude is that there should be no private schools at all, if possible, and that people should be going to schools local to them (so all local schools should be good, thats the aim).

i am an addiction rate taxpayer, we are considering private schools if we really need to, but Im just sick of these tone deaf threads, just shut up already 🤦‍♀️

And no party does decent modelling of tax impacts anyway. Conservative certainly didn’t when they raised taxes, otherwise they would get rid of 100K personal allowance cliff

That it’s a good thing if private school pupils get moved into substandard schools, which multiple posters have quoted you on. We’re going round in circles at this point.

I do think it's a good thing. I stand by that, for the reasons I originally stated. You wrongly took that to mean I'm a communist for some reason.

😂😂😂😂

It absolutely will where a private school takes in local kids. I live in an area that bounds 3 LAs. The councillors have all confirmed that local private school kids will be prioritised on waiting lists for in-year places at the local schools (which are the best in each LA) & they’re even taking legal advice to making existing non-catchment kids reapply. From next year I doubt anyone outside of the immediate area will be in catchment.

This will probably begin to happen in more and more posh state catchments. But even then the schools are shit - eg not enough sports, not enough sen provision, not enough enrichment activities - so any parent who attends will probably be payint the same as fees for extra activities.

@OppositeOfProcrastinate I answered your question too. However, I've just spotted a misplaced apostrophe-so maybe I should be pleased you missed it!

@DodoTired "
"because nobody gives a fuck about tiny percentage of population who will be most likely voting Tory anyway."

It's coming up a LOT on the doorstep.