It's a private school one.....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Many threads on MN ... I want to know this: why haven't Labour given any info on their modelling of what will likely happen and the different scenarios that could play out when they impose VAT? It matters - because if they get thus wrong ... and a shed load of kids leave private because their families have scrimped to send them there ... the state sector in some councils will quickly be overwhelmed with kids needing state places that does not exist....which could be a lose lose for everyone! You don't build a new school and resource it in a month.... these things take years . I feel for all kids as they will all lose out if this happens and labour having got contingency in place.
How would you feel if your child is in a good state school , perhaps they get some SEND support...and suddenly there is an influx of private kids as they need the spaces. Class sizes go up to 40, all SEND provision gets cut as not enough funds, extra curricular gets cut and teachers are even more stressed, so the vicious circle if teacher shortages now intensifies....the spiral continues for years to come. Who has won?? No one ....
What are your thoughts on this ?
I don't disagree with the principle that private is a luxury and probably should pay VAT... what I disagree with is the notion you can just implement something that will fundamentally shift things on a seismic way in one big bang. No thought whatsoever. Tell me if you agree or have a different view and why ?

@Elvisthedonkey I don’t think posts like the below warrant sensible responses.

“What is unequal about immigrants working 3 jobs to send their kids to private school? They’re working hard to equalise their own disadvantage. It’s an option is open to anyone who wants to do it.”

No. Overall 25% of U.K. private students are at school in London.

The company won't do a thing about it until you hit them in the pocket.

@Mirabai I meant the data re boroughs, can you link to it?

Have the tories explained how they are going to fund and manage National Service? No, they're going to establish a Royal Commission to look into it.

I don't think VAT is the right way to do this.

I think it's fine to have policies which are ideological. Changes to inheritance tax is also ideological. I'm opposed to provate schools - I think they are bad for society. It's normal to use taxation to try to change behaviour. You make it harder for people to do things you think are bad for society, like gambling and drinking and buying full-sugar coke. I wouldn't use VAT though - it doesn't feel right.

I feel sympathetic for the children who will be affected by this, and their parents - especially those with SEN children (have SEN children who can't attend mainstream, I can't afford private, I feel very sorry for anyone who found a sokution and may lose it - additionally, SEN children are likely yo make it harder to work, so parents of SEN children are less likely to be able to find additional funds).

But all policy changes have unequal impacts and you can only mitigate them for a certain amount of time or to a certain degree. Changes to thresholds for benefits affect people, changes to stamp duty thresholds etc.

It could be mitigated - you could allow anyone with children already in private schools to claim the tax back one way or another, or for a limited period of time. It would be really easy to do it through the school's VAT return.

But the level of hysteria and focus on here around VAT on private school fees is really quite weird. (I have a professional interest in VAT - I realises that's why I keep reading them!).

The state schools in Richmond are not actually very good and 25% of the borough’s kids are in private schools.

No you can Google for it yourself.

I don't understand why I would give much of a shit about a tax that will impact a fraction of a fraction of kids. VAT or not, I couldn't care less, makes not a jot of difference to 99% of the nation.
So what if it entrenches privilege very slightly more than it already is? So what if competition for the best state schools increases very slightly? It's not going to make any measurable difference to the vast majority of the 94% of kids already in the state system.

They haven't launched their manifesto yet?

@Mirabai So that’s a no then 😆

Yes, I'm wondering why only Labour is supposed to produce modelling of what will happen in different scenarios especially given this policy will only effect a small proportion of the population. The same rules don't seem to apply to the Tories.

Mmm, one of the richest boroughs in the country by earnings are the largest users of private education. Strange that.

The state schools in Richmond are not actually very good and 25% of the borough’s kids are in private schools.

Whats wrong with Waldegrave, GC, OP, etc?

5.9% of all kids at school are at private schools. 554,000 kids. There are 20,778 state schools. That is less than 2 kids per state school, not hundreds descending on them. And what ever MN claims, very few of them would leave private for state - the vast majority will stay private.

If you can afford to drive a new range rover, you can afford a 20% vat on private school fee's. And as the vat won't be on ALL their expenses, any school that puts their fee's up 20% is ripping the parents off.

Nobody can do anything about it because the ship has sunk and they're all dead 😂

Yep and that’s not even the highest % of London boroughs. K&C is 50%.

What threads? Most threads I've seen have been private school teachers moving to state schools due to pension scheme and work load.

Rose was left 😂😂😂

It probably won't end here, though. When university fees were first brought in, people said 'you can find £1000 a year, stop moaning'. Look where we are now. It's the principle of the thing.

They’re ok. Richmond Park Academy is not great, Richmond College used to be very good and now less so. It depends on your standards.

She could definitely have fitted another person on that floating door. She's never going to let go ... oh, oops, sorry, bye, bye! 😂

It’s not a no. I can link to it but I cba. I’m surprised you don’t know this stuff.

My solution would be to remove charitable status from schools who don't meet strict criteria. The bursaries provided by the private high schools near me (outer London) are no higher than 20% off fee's for any of them, which doesn't make them any more affordable for average parents. They don't offer out their facilities for free - they charge through the roof for them. Both have "scholarships", but bizarrely, these don't even offer a discount on fees which confuses me!

WHY does this give them charitable status?

Maybe Labour could spend their first term in power improving the State system to such an extent that parents would not be concerned to send their children to a State school? Then bring in VAT in their second term in office.

Or is the reality that the State system is so bad it would take at least a decade of investment to see any improvement?

It's hardly a new principle though. VAT has always been paid on luxuries, should never have been exempt in the first place.