It's a private school one.....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Many threads on MN ... I want to know this: why haven't Labour given any info on their modelling of what will likely happen and the different scenarios that could play out when they impose VAT? It matters - because if they get thus wrong ... and a shed load of kids leave private because their families have scrimped to send them there ... the state sector in some councils will quickly be overwhelmed with kids needing state places that does not exist....which could be a lose lose for everyone! You don't build a new school and resource it in a month.... these things take years . I feel for all kids as they will all lose out if this happens and labour having got contingency in place.
How would you feel if your child is in a good state school , perhaps they get some SEND support...and suddenly there is an influx of private kids as they need the spaces. Class sizes go up to 40, all SEND provision gets cut as not enough funds, extra curricular gets cut and teachers are even more stressed, so the vicious circle if teacher shortages now intensifies....the spiral continues for years to come. Who has won?? No one ....
What are your thoughts on this ?
I don't disagree with the principle that private is a luxury and probably should pay VAT... what I disagree with is the notion you can just implement something that will fundamentally shift things on a seismic way in one big bang. No thought whatsoever. Tell me if you agree or have a different view and why ?

I don’t have a child in private school and don’t intend to (my husband is a state school teacher and passionate about the state system) but I think any policy that raises money through taxing education is a cynical policy.

Similar to healthcare. Private healthcare in VAT exempt, though it is out of reach of many. But I wouldn’t support adding VAT to private healthcare, though you could argue that people going private are also trying to ‘jump the societal queue.’

Raise money in other ways - I think taxing parents trying to pay for their children’s education is a depressing route (with seemingly mediocre financial gain) and doesn’t motivate or appeal to me as a Labour voter.

So leave the country, get demoted or reduce your hours. I'm sure you will argue that no one else can do your job and pay taxes but you would say that.

@Mirabai I don’t understand your point. The vast majority of dc who attend a London grammar have some form of tutoring or often attend a prep. Grammar dc tend to come from a fairly narrow demographic, are you disagreeing with that? And as I said some of the best state options are faith so tutoring won’t make up for lack of church attendance.

What is unequal about immigrants working 3 jobs to send their kids to private school? They’re working hard to equalise their own disadvantage. It’s an option is open to anyone who wants to do it.

There will always be fee-paying schools. The more they charge the more elitist they will become.

Do you think that private schools are palatial? I spent 6yrs in a state school and now work in one top tier school and DC are in another 2nd tier school and I can tell you that the walls are not lined with silk nor are they carpeted or without draughts in the winter in either school.

The difference is that at private school the children don't tear down the art work off the walls, presentation cases on the walls don't have to be locked shut, the children don't block the toilets for fun, or talk back to teachers. Because if they did these things, they are asked to leave and their parents have to go through the hassle of finding another school.

It isn't about whether the parents would dislike sending their children to a state school building, it's that they don't want their lessons disrupted by pupils who can't behave and are not disciplined when they misbehave, that they don't want them to have to be restricted in their use of the toilets. They also don't want them to be subject to MAT/academy style rules and discipline which is used simply to control the misbehaving cohort of pupils.

I sent my DC private so they wouldn't have to deal with what I had in the 90s, kids blowing up condoms and using them as water bombs, spitting tissue onto the ceiling, constant rudeness to teachers.

This is exactly why we pulled our child out of his state school. Bullying is everywhere but he is now thriving in a much smaller class size where positive friendships are encouraged and poor behaviour isn’t tolerated. We don’t have a big house or big holidays or a fancy car. Many other parents at his school don’t either.

Labour are just going to make the rich leave the country (an entirely viable option for me by the way) or stop working so hard - because honestly what is the point?

So you would say you are rich?

As I said upthread I don’t know why you do a job you hate, that must be soul destroying.

The idea that the “rich” will all leave is nonsense.

In leafy Richmond, usually at or top of the tables in terms of state school attainment, a lot of the primary schools expanded a few years ago due to expansion of the local population, and a number of new academies were established. Now a lot of those extra classrooms in the primary schools are empty and the secondary schools are beginning to feel the effects.

There is also a hefty proportion of children from the area in private schools. If the projected 6-7% of those pupils come back looking for places it's pretty clear that there will be no problem whatsoever accommodating them in perfectly good schools.

What is unequal about immigrants working 3 jobs to send their kids to private school? They’re working hard to equalise their own disadvantage. It’s an option is open to anyone who wants to do it.

Maybe they need a 4th job so they can afford VAT?

So you think all the people in the life boats should have just jumped into the sea with everyone else? Or could the company have done the sensible thing and provided the correct number of life boats in the first place?

@Beveren Richmond has some excellent state schools although house prices are potentially a little more prohibitive than VAT.

That's a sensible idea, but not all of the kids with special needs will have one, largely because it takes so long. In our area, it takes a couple of years to get a diagnosis of eg autism, then another couple of years to fight your way through then system to get an ehcp. DD didn't get diagnosed until she was nearly 15, and in NI they only last until school leaving ages (unlike in England) so she'd never have got one in time.

The school my daughter is at had just announced a 17% rise in fees the day before the election was called. Add 20% VAT to that and quite a few parents won't be able to afford it. It's at the very cheap end of private schools to begin with, which makes it more accessible (although I acknowledge still only to the reasonably well off) but that does mean they don't have any spare cash to buffer the introduction of VAT.

I totally agree that state education needs more funding, I just wish I was confident that the money raised from VAT on private school fees will actually reach schools.

@wombat15 Eh? I’m not saying me leaving the country is going to break the country’s economy?

I’m saying that if you bring in unfair taxes, and tax people too much, they will (IN LARGE NUMBER) stop working so hard or go to live in another country where they can actually reap the rewards of their hard work.

And no that wouldn’t just create vacancies for everyone else - the reason people get paid a high salary is generally that only a small number of people are actually qualified and able to do that job. And anyone who is would likely be as pissed off as I am about the tax burden placed on us.

I agree they need to be much more decisive about bad behaviour. These kind of assaults would result in a criminal record if they took place on the street but in school there's no adequate response to keep the victim safe. Immediate expulsion for the first violent offence is the only suitable response really. Imagine how long you'd last in a job if you set a colleagues hair on fire.

A friend's son (15) was subjected to 3 separate assaults in class, the last of which left him needing stitches on his face. The perpetrator continued at the school while the victim had no choice but to either leave or continue to be attacked

Sure, let the immigrants eat cake eh?

I’m saying that if you bring in unfair taxes, and tax people too much, they will (IN LARGE NUMBER) stop working so hard or go to live in another country where they can actually reap the rewards of their hard work.

Tax is high now under the Tories but I don’t think loads of people have left?

@Mirabai You are the one saying the option to work 3 jobs to afford PE is open to all, why not 4 or 5 jobs?

@Pollipops1 Yes I would say I’m rich, compared to the general population. Does that mean I can easily afford an extra £18K a year? No. Am I earning a seven figure salary? No - I’m not even earning half that.

Not sure what your point is.

Or they could be like my parents who are immigrants and sent us to state schools. It still closed the disadvantage you talk about.

What???? I mean for heaven’s sake, you are just being facetious.

Can we please have a moratorium on these threads. It feels like there have been about fifty of them.

@Elvisthedonkey It’s refreshing to hear a poster counter the “all PE families are scraping by” narrative.

People who are rich enough to go and live in a tax haven are not going to be massively affected by 20% Vat, especially when you consider the cost of living effect of the current government has already resulted in fee increases above this.

But if you want to leave that's up to you. People always act selfishly in the end. Rich people are not morally better than anyone else. We all depend on each other. Some of the least well paid people do the most vital and least appealing jobs. You should just be grateful you aren't cleaning toilets for minimum wage and stop being so superior.

Fortunately it is not an unfair tax then so no need for large numbers of people to stop working "so hard or go and live in another country". Many of those earning a high salary are not more qualified or harder working than those earning a slightly lower one.

I believe this is true. The comp my children attended was in an area of rural beauty but deprivation. The 'local' private is 17 miles away. Even assuming all those kids are forced to move they'll scatter throughout the county.
There's a lot of scaremongering going on!