To think that 4/5 year olds should not be learning about d-day deaths?

[UponReflectionLake]

4 year old DS came home from school telling us about how they learned about D-Day, including how many people died, and the fighting. Whilst I agree kids should learn about this I definitely don’t think it should be foundation age children! DS suffers with nightmares and night terrors and already know this is going to cause many of them in the next few weeks. Husband says I’m overreacting, curious to see other mums opinions?

I am French and I can't remember a time when I didn't know about le Jour J.
Both my parents grew up under German occupation so I heard a lot of stories from very young.
If you have been in France, you would have notice the numerous blue plaques marking the place where people (mostly résistants) were killed by the occupiers.
Every village, towns and cities have them.
Today is very important to us French.

It’s interesting that you posted this as just today I was thinking about when my (now 12 year old DD) was about 4 and she was very sad after school and then said to me “why did the soldiers have to die?” It was quite heart wrenching.

Thank you so much. This was what I meant and I should’ve made that clear on my original post. The school have been aware of it since preschool. Some things are unavoidable like the children talking, etc but if I had the heads up I could’ve researched myself so I also had a better understanding, I could’ve spoke with his liaison and CAMHS so they’d be aware he may need extra sessions this week or as you say he could’ve gone off to do his reading, maths etc in that time.

I agree that children need to learn about it and I suppose there is never really a good time to learn about something so immeasurably sad. I grew up in South Africa and we barely touched on D-Day but my grandparents were European and so I grew up leaning about the World Wars.

I don’t really worry about things like this tbh. First time DD realised death was permanent was at 4 she was a bit shocked and a bit worried that we would die then she got over it quite quickly. Death is a part of life and most children are a little bit morbid ( Roald Dhal and all that).

Some kids are a bit more sensitive than others (Dd is definitely a sensitive soul, always got teary at emotional stuff in movies or on tv).

It sounds like your child gets more upset than average about these kind of things, so I’d discuss with their teacher about how you can get a heads up to discuss things at home. They do the wars a lot in school and this will come up repeatedly. My ds doesn’t get as upset as yours, but when they played the air raid siren in year 2 he found it v frightening and had trouble sleeping for a while. So when they did ww2 immersion day in yr 3 I mentioned it to his teacher and she took it on board and didn’t include playing the siren in her plans for the day. But we walk home through a beautiful cemetery every day so we also talk about death and memorials etc.

I don’t think it’s ok to expect the school to arrange for him to be doing maths or something else in foundation stage - he isn’t exactly old enough to work alone so a TA would need to be with him if he wasn’t with his cohort.
If he can’t cope with the curriculum (with no SEN ) then it might be that you have to collect him and ask for a heads up on sensitive issues. The children are at school to be educated and that might include history which is gruesome. I’m sure the school will handle it sensitively. You need to model being ok with stuff like this - his imagination sounds amazing! Encourage it and model being calm and collected :)

@UponReflectionLake

How do you expect preschool to keep these subjects away from your child?

Other children will bring it up and it is age appropriate to discuss for teachers.

Tbh your son should be seen by a professionel if it takes such a toll on him.

Absolutely but that’s just proving my point… if I’d had known what he was taught I could correct him (another commenter mentioned about poppies and what they were taught at his age). It also shows that he wasn’t ready to learn about this as he’s put two things together and got something else. This may be because of his own anxieties or his age, however it does show he really shouldn’t have been in that lesson today and thankfully and EY teacher has commented aswell agreeing.

Do a Google image search for D-day maps (for some reason it won't let me post any). Among the first images are a topographical map of France showing the landing areas marked in red and a map showing the allied territory in blue and German held areas in red. These are probably the type of image he was shown, they are totally benign.

He has seen today's newsround. It shows France coloured red to mark the area invaded by the Nazis. You can watch it on I player to see how child friendly it was.

When I was that age we learned why some children had a grandad & others didn't.
The generation before why some children had a daddy & others didn't. Everyone understood & had respect.

Has your DC perhaps been exposed to too much fantasy war games, films etc. Thats more likely to be causing their problems.

In your sons case... I think you and school need an agreed plan covering History, RE and current affairs, for example missing assembly as he has a particular reason for not coping.

But in general... 4yos can cope with learning these things. Mine was that age during the 100years sine ce WW1 commerations... it wasa Military school, but it was all handled sensitively (especially since they are aware Soldiers Dying isn't a historical thing for Military children, it can unfortunately be reality).

He needs urgent support for his mental health & behaviour problems. D day is definitely not to blame.

Please see other comments regarding my health, and his anxiety. Nothing to do with games or film. He is also aware of family dynamic as you describe.

He is recieving support, from Camhs and a liasion. Hence my frustration the school hadn’t discussed with us first. Aware now it’s not about age and more my sons own perceptions due to his anxiety.

Thank you, yes I think that’s the way forward. I think it can be hard for me to differentiate between it now with his anxiety as this post definitely shows most 4/5 year old would cope. It’s helpful to know going forward with it that we can work on it.

I am also going to add, I am talking from experience. Having an ill parent can cause anxiety in children. My daughter is 16 and grew up with her dad having kidney failure, transplant, transplant rejection, then at 13 he took his own life.
Please please if you haven't already get the child into counselling. Not to actively help with anxiety but to allow him to play in a safe place and talk about hospitals, worries, death (if that is something that may happen - sorry to say it like that) cos honestly it really does help.
My daughter, although she has been through some actual horrible shit she is a confident young woman who has tools now to combat her sadness and anxiety. To the point she helps me if I feel sad about something.

Whilst night terrors can be made worse by anxiety, they don’t in themselves give a child nightmares. The two are in completely separate stages of sleep. Dreams don’t happen during night terrors.

You cannot be informed of everything that might make your child anxious. Anxiety is a normal, everyday emotion and how you model coping with it is far more important than trying to avoid anything which brings up the feeling.

He has counselling with cahms. It’s been a very difficult time for him and he’s struggled to adjust as I’m in the hospital often. I’m so sorry for your loss. It helps to know things will improve eventually, just tough when trying to navigate all these things when it’s hard to know what’s coming next.

But surely you've put two things that your child has said together and thought they meant something else. From the way it reads, you thought when he was referring to red you interpreted it as blood rather than poppies.
If you're instantly thinking of the worst case scenario, your child will be picking up on that.

Schools do discuss topical events in class, in assemblies etc. Maybe keep an eye on what's coming up so you can discuss it with your child in advance.

If he has such an imagination it causes anxiety, surely he could interpret anything in a way that could give him nightmares?

I get it, my son suffered really bad with anxiety after my mum died. She was a fit 66 year old in the morning and gone in the afternoon. The fact that someone could be here one minute and fine the next really shook him. So I am not unsympathetic. But school can’t plan what they teach around ds.

Fair enough to ask for a heads up, but you can’t expect them to only mention things he is comfortable with.

Firstly, I am sorry to hear about your health struggles, and your son"s complex issues around anxiety. Both sound very upsetting and stressful.

Have the professionals involved with your son's anxiety issues suggested a plan of action - specifically in regards to the issue you raise here, which is potentially upsetting content?

The vast majority of children of his age are able to cope completely fine with learning about history, including war, and the deaths of individuals/groups who lived a long time ago. And with learning about the death of a distant celebrity such as the queen. The school are on the face of it doing nothing wrong, in terms of teaching this content to the vast majority of children. But perhaps your son needs a specific plan in place that his teachers can follow, because of his specific needs?

I assume the health care professionals have said it is appropriate he is shielded from such content at this stage? On the face of it this does seem surprising as an approach - death is an unavoidable part of life, and it seems sensible to introduce children to it gently through history and fiction. However, I am no expert, and if the child psychiatrists (or similar) involved in your son's care have advised he should be shielded from such content, the school should of course follow their advice.

He has both, separately and are dealt with in different ways. He has counselling and we are aware of this and how to help in each scenario.