Green Party pledge to reduce c section rates

[TTCaxristi]

Is this something a political party should even get involved in?

I had understood that a focus on keeping c sections below an arbitrary threshold was at least partially responsible for the Shrewsbury maternity scandal.

https://news.sky.com/story/shrewsbury-maternity-scandal-the-babies-who-died-in-the-uks-worst-hospital-childbirth-scandal-12576727

It looks as though the greens are reviewing the policy now but am I alone in finding this chilling? What does it say about their attitude to women? I really strongly believe that it’s up to the individual woman how she gives birth, and the focus on arbitrary targets is misguided at best and dangerous at worst.

YABU - this is something a political party should have a policy on
YANBU - this is not something a non medical entity should have policy on

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/green-party-nhs-lbc-b1162105.html#

Given the Green Party struggle to understand what woman is, I wonder which 'women' this will be applied to?

Absolutely. I lived in Brighton during the time they were running it and shit show describes it exactly.

The chances of them ending up being able to influence policy about anything in this country is so remote I really wouldn't give credence or head space to anything they prate.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice re breaking waters manually. There shouldn't be a blanket policy, it should be decided on individual cases, with the labouring woman having the last say. I was in labour six hours longer than I needed to be because the hospital had a, no, policy. The MW came in on duty and told me to say that I'm going home to break my waters with a knitting needle, so I did. That meant she could break my waters and I delivered within twenty minutes. I was exhausted and I believe it contributed to me not bonding as I did with my other two. I, my Mum and my DD have all needed our waters breaking, that's been the total intervention needed. Again it's dismissing the needs and wants of the labouring woman.

Have the Greens been taken over by the NCT?
Shame on those women having C-sections! Was it absolutely necessary? Are you sure? Are you sure you weren't just taking the easy option? Lucky you, I had to have a vaginal birth and now I've got urinary incontinence and varicose veins! Oh, you have those too due to carrying a huge baby weighing on your pelvis for several months? Surely not, only vaginal births matter, C-sections are the easy route for lazy mothers and now you have skipped all the complications while also damaging your baby. Shame!

No hospital gives you a c section if you don’t need one. It’s already restricted to being an “as necessary” intervention.

How do the Greens intend to ensure that fewer c sections are necessary? Otherwise they’re talking about not giving c sections to women and babies who need them.

"What does it say about their attitude to women?"

Sadly, I think we KNOW what the GP's attitude towards women is.

I used to be a lot more NCT about this. Until I'd actually become pregnant, had a couple of MCs, given birth and experienced some of the things that pregnancy and motherhood can throw at you. Women are allowed to request elective c-sections and thank god it's now a lot more acceptable. I didn't need one and I didn't want one, but I know lots of women who did want one, for a wide variety of reasons. I'm really glad that the NHS has broadly moved on to a position where they accommodate women in their needs and wants, and the GP appears to want to take us back. No thanks.

Oh, the Greens. So many shades of hating women.

I absolutely wouldn’t want a political party deciding this. Only medical professionals. I wanted a vaginal birth, had an emergency c section. I wanted a VBAC for second birth as I do believe natural where possible.
My baby was in serious distress and I was still begging them to let me have a VBAC. thank fuck the consultant put me under for a general anaesthetic immediately and got my baby out in minutes. She was born not breathing and terrible apgar scor. Had to go to NICU. Luckily no brain damage.

I was obsessed with trying for a natural birth second time and it almost damaged my baby’s health.

Yes, I had also been 'taught' by NCT that C-sections were bad and I should under no circumstances agree to one. If I hadn't gone into labour naturally with a stuck breech baby and had little choice other than to have an emergency C-section, my baby might not been born healthily. In retrospect, all the agonising over an elective C-section was unnecessary and there should be no shame in taking advantage of modern surgery to increase the chance of healthy babies and healthy mothers. Very sad to think there are groups out there that see these procedures as undesirable, requiring reduction/limitation in numbers, being less available. It will invariably lead to unnecessary infant and maternal deaths.

The Greens are a bunch of idiots. As other pps have said just look at what happened in Scotland when they got involved in government. They're not an environmental party any more.

My natural birth resulted in me having blood transfusions and an emergency hysterectomy to stop me bleeding to death.

And in the local elections the Green party seems to have been either hijacked or willingly gone along with being a protest vote for people opposed to the events in Gaza, which kind of skews their policies in a completely non-environmental direction that many are not aware of.
Edited to add - not a political criticism, just that they need to be more open about their non-environmental policies.

Interestingly, if it's all about money, health economists are unclear if in the long term c-sections are more costly.

One of the biggest (in some Trusts up to 20%) costs maternity services have relates to legal costs and payouts when things go wrong (e.g. brain hypoxia, cerebral palsy, stillbirth). This disproportionately results from vaginal births, not c-sections. There are also some long term complications (e.g. prolapse, pelvic floor issues) that cost a lot of money in later life and again are more related to vaginal births. There have been articles about this BMJ, if I can locate them I'll link.

This is wrong btw. Women have been able to choose to have a c-section for many years.

There have been studies in Canada on this and long term it’s better for the elective section mums. Even when looking at cost as long term they require less ongoing support than those with vaginal births and of course less than those who have an EMCS

My consultants face when I took that research paper with me to my appt to ‘fight’ for my section was a picture

Another political party off the potential voting list.

😂

Just when you thought The Greens couldn't be anymore ridiculous they always manage it.

I used to campaign and vote for the Green Party back in the day when their policies were based on saving the environment. The
natural world is still something I'm passionate about but FFS I would never vote for them now.

Not sure they've ever actually done a great deal to attempt to save the environment.

During their reign in Brighton we had one of the lowest levels, if not the lowest level, of recycling rates in the country.

I'm fully aware council recycling is all a bit iffy, but hardly recycling anything when you're supposed to be the party of the environment is not a good look and pretty much sums up how ridiculous they actually are.

Jesus, I didn't realise that was the case and it makes them even more of a joke !!

"“The incidence of medical intervention in childbirth has escalated in recent years, particularly the rate of caesarean sections, which are expensive and, when not medically required, risky.”

This is an appalling statement. NICE guidelines could not be clearer that women should be offered balanced and accurate information on the potential risks and benefits of both vaginal birth and caesarian birth to ensure informed decision making. Biased statements like that have no place in ethical medical care and the Greens should be ashamed.

It’s a shame that the Greens get involved in policies separate from the environment and energy. They would do well if they stayed in their lane.

Their views on sex, and now childbirth, are so alienating, and polarising. It’s almost as though a lobby for fossil fuels has infiltrated eco-conscious politics and has made them so ridiculous so that they split their vote base and never get elected.

Yea. This is absolutely nuts.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice

For example, breaking your waters manually increases risk of cord prolapse which causes an emergency csection. If they didn’t intervene to break your waters, then that risk and the resultant number of csections disappear.

Breaking my waters manually was a medical intervention to save mine and my babies life. It was either that or an immediate c-section. So yes if they hadn’t broken my waters manually the risk of cord prolapse would be reduced however I’d have been dead from eclampsia which is not ideal but hey would mean the purists would have reduced medical intervention.

Same here waters broken to get me into labour to save my daughters life. I had a few hours to have her naturally or I was having a C Section.
The Greens are being idiots.

The image of Gilliad with ladies in green dresses chanting ‘breathe, breathe’ came to mind.