To ask what about victims of male on male violence

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Many men are victims of violence by other men. The majority of men are murdered by other men, very often their friends or acquaintances. So, if that isn't being talked about enough, I created a thread right here, for that specific issue.

Exactly. So we need to change societal expectations.

tbh I suspect women don’t want to give up being the default parent. I have known many women irl and here who don’t want the shared parental leave, they want the full year. They don’t want to go back to work. They don’t want to share their kids 50:50 on a split. He’ll I’ve seen women advised not to let men parent because on divorce there’s a chance the dad could apply for RP.

economic reasons are why? Because men get paid more. Why? Because women give up work or go pt once they have children, so the gender pay gap is maintained.

personally I would have given up work if I was financially indecently secure. Who wouldn’t. But I did not because I don’t want to be financially dependent on a man. I suspect though many women like this set up, are quite happy not working, and don’t want to be working full time with a sahd. Which is fine, but if we want that parenting responsibility then we have to accept our role in raising boys and girls, and that men do have less input as they are full time working.

Men are huge problem, and the problem of men is caused by men failing to set good standards and be good role models for boys.
Women have enough to cope with with all the problems men cause for us.
There are some good men & they should be setting up support etc groups to help themselves with the problems caused by men.
But they don't want, to even the good men are too busy bigging themselves up and focusing on themselves.

À lot. I'm on my phone so CBA writing it all out. But I'll come back to this poibt

I suspect though many women like this set up, are quite happy not working, and don’t want to be working full time with a sahd
Typically when women are the higher earner the male partner sulks because he isn't the boss anymore, does everything he can to Sabotage her, insists that he still head of the household, refuses to do the domestic work etc.
Women who take on the role of full-time parent ARE working. Parenting caring for children IS work. It has low status because it's not paid and that's why men don't want to do it. They want to focus on what's best for them and they expect the woman to Sacrifice herself for other people.

But saying it’s just “mens” fault and their job to fix job is like saying that, for example, black on black knife crime is the fault of all black people and they should sort it out.

it’s not right to simply say “men do it, men sort it”. It’s reductive and unhelpful.

Can’t disagree with any of that
thats the “what”. The “how” is harder

more specifically, the how to make it more broadly the case rather than some men doing it, and the problem men not doing (and never being challenged)

They should at least care enough to be out there leading the demands for change. We can get behind them. Be allies. Not be the ones doing it all for them.

Where are they? Why aren't they out there leading the cause?

Men want to monopolise female centric conversations to shut women down. They don’t actually care about male centric issues or male victims. If they did they would be having those conversations and taking action amongst themselves. But they don’t. Instead they bitch and moan about women having conversations and setting up initiatives to help and support other women with all their ‘but what about us’ shite. For example, the only time men recognise or care about International Men’s Day is on International Women’s Day. The only time they care about victims of male on male or female on male violence is during conversations women are having about male violence against women and girls. The reason there are more initiatives and support options for women than men is because women get off their arse and create them.

As the mother of a son I disagree that its an issue for men to sort out. We need to teach ours sons good communication, how to manage stress and emotional upheaval and how to reach out when they are not coping.
violence is often due to a suppression or inability to handle internal struggles, or though being taught that domination of others is the only way to win in life.
The world is a difficult place for most of us. Men make up half the population, its a ‘humankind’ issue.

Apologies for not caring more but I'm still recovering from my vicious assault at the hands of a man (that took me 6 months to heal from the injuries... the first anniversary is this week.) I'm not trying to gain sympathy, but just say that all the shit that men put women through makes it even harder for us to solve problems that are mostly not ours to fix.

They assault us and murder us, but we're still meant to solve the problem of male on male violence, on top of living with the consequences of their violence towards us.

Won't someone think of the poor men who can't stop assaulting and murdering people?!

Maybe mothers can have an impact, however, I feel the male role model is often more significant than the mother's role, for their sons. A good man treating his wife well teaches young men to do the same.

Maybe the best thing a woman can do is to marry a good man so that her son has a good role model.

Or to put it another way - they are already the ones doing something about it (by studying criminology/psychology). Possibly that isn't effective. But it does suggest women are interested in the topic.

Men want to dominate and control, to dominate and control other men as well as all women.

I think there are two types...
I know men who volunteer in suicide prevention. And also men who work with younger boys/teens who are at risk of going down the wrong path. Basically trying to stop crimes/criminal behaviour before it happens. Lots of men do want to stop violence.
But there are also a lot of men who basically just spam threads about female victims of violence asking "what about the men." I agree with you that I don't think those men are interested in stopping male on male violence.

I've already explained this, see my post near the top of the previous page. Most men automatically do all of the things that women are asked to do to protect themselves; it's learned in the playground. They don't talk about it, because it's just part of their life.

Is that a good thing? No, absolutely not - that's the "affects negatively" part. Nobody should need to do those things in an ideal society. They do, however, just accept that it's necessary.

boys/teens who are at risk of going down the wrong path
I think this is a significant factor in the problem of men. I.e they go down the wrong path much more readily and easily than women do. They also become 'too far gone' much more easily than women do, ie out of control and everyone is unwilling/ unable to stand up to them

@ntmdino "I've already explained this, see my post near the top of the previous page. Most men automatically do all of the things that women are asked to do to protect themselves; it's learned in the playground."

I hesitate to question your lived experience- but I really don't think this is true. I know no men who carry their keys in their hands when walking home at night. Who choose shoes specifically so they can run. Who make sure they are not sitting alone in a section of public transport. Who avoid being alone in a taxi. Who check up on their friends after a night out to make sure they are all home safely. The list is endless. And none of the men I know do these things routinely.

To be honest. Not to the same extent though. There was another thread on here where a woman was shocked that her partner had gone up to some strangers he'd made friends with hotel room. She mentioned it seemed irresponsible whereas I think most men wouldn't worry about it to the extent women would. I think men can usually figure out pretty quickly if they are with someone hostile. E.g. large man in pub with macho body language, somewhat hostile looking youths on street corner, a bunch of young men suddenly rushing onto the train at the last minute, their aggressive brother in law. Women do also worry about those overt threats - but I think also have to worry about situations where previously chill men might suddenly switch. Men can be victims of horrible things too - but I don't think they have the same level of fear (and possibly ironically that puts them more at risk). Plus, they don't need to worry as much about smaller, weaker men. Whereas women are still at a physical disadvantage.

So I think its wrong for women to assume men never take precautions or worry about walking down dark streets. But I also think men don't see the extra level of precaution women take on top of the ones men take. Which ironically makes men more likely to be e.g. walk through the park late at night and therefore more likely to be victims of opportunistic muggings etc. In an ideal world we would all walk through the park at night and wouldn't worry about being mugged or raped.

Exactly, they don’t at all. That’s why, for example, it’s nearly always men writing daft comments under posts about walking pads “ hey why don’t you all just walk outside” it’s like they haven’t considered that aside from many other reasons (weather, convenience etc) there are safety concerns for not wanting to go on a run outside even during the days. And men aren’t warned not to go back to a woman’s house after a first date or not to share to where they live etc with Anna love interest. They may choose not to, but it’s not something they’re typically told not to do for safety reasons the same way women are.

I think you also see the difference in deaths from alcohol. Because of the horrible things that are likely to happen to very drunk females in their own, most decent female friends would make sure a very drunk female friend got home safely etc. Whereas a lot of the lads group at uni had funny stories about Dave wandering of from the others and waking up in a wheely bin etc etc. They were funny stories and good people. But because girls feel more of a "duty of care" to their friends, they benefit from being less likely to come to a drunken accident, die of hyperthermia etc. Even though the duty of care isn't because of those risks. Which is also why I am trying to instil in my son and his friends not to let Dave wander of drunk and fall asleep in a wheely bin.

Male violence isn’t caused by austerity. Wealthy men bear their wives too.

Male violence is down to male aggression which is caused by testosterone spikes when challenged.

Women do not have these testosterone spikes.

So it really IS a male problem.

I mean sure - tell your son not to let ‘Dave’ wander off but to come on a predominantly female board which is full of posts about abusive men and VAWG and then blame male on male violence on everything else - except men is pretty telling tbh

Have you seen my other posts? I really don't like abusive men. I also wish that more men could see that preventing violence against women and children (particularly in the home) can prevent other men growing up and being violent against possibly against them. Or that paying attention to violent men inside the home makes it easier to stop potential terrorists. Basically, campaigns to reduce violence against women also accidentally also make life safer for men in indirect ways.
I do also care about male victims. I just found it much harder to think of concrete things that would help (in a more direct way than the above). Whereas I can think of lots of practical things that can reduce violence against women. So I started the thread. Maybe the answer is, nothing, but I don't think its unreasonable to start the thread.

Ok so if a drunk girl wanders off and gets raped - whose fault is it?

The drunk girl
Her mates who apparently have duty of care
The rapist?

The drunk girls mates walk her home not because she might get hypothermia it’s because she might get raped. - by a man.

Lads walk their mate home so he doesn’t end up killing himself.

Do you see the difference?

Male on male violence is waaaaaaaaaaaay at the back of the list I need to worry about

It’s a bit like worrying about the lions killing a each other before they come to eat the people in the village

Its the rapists fault. Always the rapist. (Although in cases where the police have failed to act on previous reports also the police.)

But this: "The drunk girls mates walk her home not because she might get hypothermia it’s because she might get raped. - by a man." Was my point. Girls/women worry about the (very real) risk of sexual violence and take steps to prevent it. They shouldn't have to but they do. Ironically this also has the effect of lowering the risk of other bad things - hyperthermia, being mugged late at night in the park etc. So statistically men are then more likely to get mugged. But ideally no-one would be being mugged.
Actually - the more people in the park at night the safer. And even men feel safer walking through an area where there are women around than an area where its just groups of men hanging around.

Well, my lived experience is that my current friends group is about 60-40 women to men. Four of the guys have had hospital stays through being attacked, three on nights out and one walking home from work in the dark. Only one of the women I know has, through domestic violence. My brother was sucker-punched from behind and then kerb-stomped, coming out of a kebab house on a night out.

I've only been attacked once, and it was by a group of women many years ago. They were never prosecuted, because "...it would be hard to prove who started it".