To ask what about victims of male on male violence

[anothernamitynamenamechange]

Many men are victims of violence by other men. The majority of men are murdered by other men, very often their friends or acquaintances. So, if that isn't being talked about enough, I created a thread right here, for that specific issue.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing we have a problem with men perpetuating violence? This is a forum primarily made up of women so the focus is generally on women. That doesn't mean we aren't aware.

What would you like to discuss?

You might do better posting this on a male orientated forum. Men hold the answers, not the women.

Unless you have, in which case what were the responses?

I don't think it's unreasonable to discuss it on here. Women have sons, brothers, fathers, husbands.

Regarding how to address both violence against women and men. I've said it on another thread and I'll say it here too. Do the below things:

Good well-funded public services
Supportive benefits system
More social housing
Improved child support system
Work education and training opportunities

Across the UK.

I agree male on male violence is a huge problem. However this is primarily a female chat board. What exactly do you expect WOMEN to do about a problem caused by MEN...?

Yes, male violence is a massive issue. Why have you posted this on a predominantly female site? Surely this is a male problem to resolve? Should women pick up the slack for everything? We are already trying not to get violently attacked, raped and murdered by men!

What about it?
It's a man's issue. They're the cause of it, they're the victims of it and women have more than enough battles to fight (mostly caused by men).
So while I'm not denying the facts or downplaying the seriousness of the issue.
It's just not on my radar personally as its not an 'us' problem.

I created the thread because there was another thread about VAWG and someone asked what about male on male violence. I agree it is important so created a thread here. It isn't fair to derail the other thread but AIBU covers a range of topics anyway. If there is not enough interest/awareness of it then it can't hurt to create a thread (even if it descended into a bun fight).

While I do want to keep it focussed on men - I do also think that there are links to DV e.g.: Study: Two-Thirds of Mass Shootings Linked to Domestic Violence - The Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence (efsgv.org)
UK study shows link between domestic violence and radicalisation risk | Reuters
Being victims or witnesses of domestic abuse is also one of the adverse childhood experiences that are seen at much much higher rates in the prison system than the general population. So it makes young men more likely to commit crimes (including violent crimes against other men) and more likely to be members of gangs etc which puts them at higher risk of violence.

That's not to divert attention - it is to say there are overlaps in which tackling violence in the home would massively help boys and men as well. But that's just one angle

Yeah men need to sort their shit out and stop attacking people. But what exactly are us women supposed to do about it?

That's why I put it in AIBU as well. There are lots of male posters on this site. There was already a heated discussion around that and the general consensus was mumsnet was not just for mums. And also, as a woman I do care about male victims and that there was some truth in the statement that someone made that feminists had done a good job of raising awareness of female victims of male violence so shouldn't someone do the same for men. I agree - and I don't think its zero sum but it becomes zero sum if its being hashed out on the same thread as a thread about VAWG. So I created a specific thread here for those that are interested.

Yes but there are men on here. Specifically asking to talk about men. I agree that men need to contribute, otherwise it just becomes women telling men what they should do. And then you get men getting cross at masculinity being called toxic and blah blah. But there isn't a daily limit of threads that can be created.

Also - boys can be victims too. And mumsnet is childcentered.

This is for MEN to sort out! What the hell are we supposed to do about it? We can't stop men murdering, assaulting and raping us at an horrific rate. And God knows, we've tried...

Male on male violence is a male problem.

All those young lads with knives now… They are young men, but keep getting younger and younger. They are boys, sons. So “mums” might have some answers, too.

This seems very vague, maybe you’d have had better luck just pointing the main points you want to make rather than asking if you’re being U by posting about male on male violence.

Being victims or witnesses of domestic abuse is also one of the adverse childhood experiences that are seen at much much higher rates in the prison system than the general population.

I think @anothernamitynamenamechange makes a good point about the affects of domestic violence on children.

It all comes down to the false economy approach. Saying people should just stop being violent doesn't solve the issues. Some people will still be violent. The way to address the issues of VAWG and violence against men, and the affect on children, is to have well funded public services, more social housing, supportive benefits system, improved child support system, and job education and training opportunities.

Erm I don't get the point of tbis thread. Humans have been killing each other since the dawn of the times...it isn't going to change - not today, not tomorrow or in 10 generations down the line...

FWIW I used to work with young people including young teenage boys and I know it’s not fashionable to say but I believe a lot of the time it’s linked to a lack of male role models, specifically father figures.

Men really need to step and be present fathers preferably in the same home as their child but if that’s not possible still co-parent actively with their ex.

And then there’s the social issues which have been exacerbated the past 14 years, so many cuts to youth services etc.

But yeah I’m still not sure what point you’re making by “what about male victims of male violence” yeah like what about them?? Say your points!

Imo, like VAWG, it's a societal problem. Made much worse by austerity.

Perhaps I'm in a minority on this thread but I care about addressing both VAWG (I know someone who experienced it) and violence against men. I care about my DH, my DS, and other male relatives and friends.

When I read about local crime, 9 times out of 10 it is male on male violence, I can only think of maybe 3 times in the last 10 years that involved male perpetrators & female victims, 2 out of 3 were sexual violence, the other was domestic violence. Having a ds I worry all the time about him being a victim of crime, especially as he is gay.

I know, I probably made the thread title too inflammatory.
But I meant to solve two problems

1. threads about female victims of violence getting derailed
2. Somewhere where people (men or women) who are genuinely worried about male victims can post to raise awareness or discuss solutions.

I think the initial thread sounded bullish. I agree men's sites could discuss this more but they don't. If the men on here (or the women if the women want) want to discuss it then they will. If they won't I tried.

well i guess as mothers who are fully capable citizens we can vote for change.
stronger prison sentencing wouldn't really help but residential drug and alcohol detox centers, small male transition/reintegration homes.
more positive male role models more discussion of mental health and ways to decrease stress, campaign to decrease drug and alcohol use.
not condoning domestic abuse but more support for the nuclear family.
seems like school settings are a problem that could probably benefit from a good overhaul (i'm a huge fan of small schools with a personal feel).
job opportunities ++, a return of some hands on industrial jobs from other countries i believe young men need to be physical and gainfully employed so more pe.
so so many ideas really, i would start with an overhaul of the schools and family support? mass campaign on ways to discipline children? quick (within 3 months) educational psych assessment and medication available for children in need.
tons and tons of psychiatric support.

Yes. London knife deaths: Mums tell of hardest calls after sons stabbed - BBC News

I probably made the thread title too inflammatory.

@anothernamitynamenamechange I haven't been on here that long so I don't know if MN can edit the title for you?

@Againname I asked to change the title. I really don't want people to think I am a troll.

@CurlsnSunshinetime4tea Maybe not stronger sentencing but better support in prisons. They have gone to shit recently due to overcrowding which doesn't help with preventing future violence. I know prison is a punishment but in some cases its the only chance to make positive interventions in peoples lives there is so its a shame its squandered so often. But I am a heart-bleeding lefty type so I would think that.
Also, I agree about the nuclear family thing. Most of the single parents I know would also agree. I think two parents in a happy stable relationship is the best option. Two parents separated but co-parenting well is the second best. One parent who is safe, not at risk at violence and a strong support network is the third best and can still provide a good upbringing. But all three are miles better than children being brought up in homes where there is violence or constant arguing.