To ask what about victims of male on male violence

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Many men are victims of violence by other men. The majority of men are murdered by other men, very often their friends or acquaintances. So, if that isn't being talked about enough, I created a thread right here, for that specific issue.

My child is a fellow human that is worthy of protection and the right of freedom to wonder without the fear of harm, some abstract notion of males only having to solve this to me is ridiculous. Perhaps that is not the sign of a feminist

And yet to avoid male VAWAG we have to alter our behaviour according to various men, police etc.

It would be a feminist position to take to tell men they must alter their behaviour and for other men (and women who are able, eg mothers as parents and partners of - potential - perpetrators) to take the lead in that. Because it is unfeminist to expect women to always take the lead in these things. And it is OK for feminism (I wotld say necessary) for feminism to largely Center and focus on women and societal harms to women. As a matter of urgency.

@DeeCeeCherry 'You dont want to hear what men think. Be they victim, perpetrator or concerned 'bystander' .That's why this Post isn't where men are more likely to be ie Dadsnet, or any other men's forum. You simply want to talk about men.'

No, I don't want to talk about men. Quite the opposite. Let's face it, what is there to say?

Men need to care enough about it to do all the things that women have done to try to tackle violence towards women.

Instead they seem to want women to sort it out by either including it in our conversations, talking about it as a separate conversation, making room in our DV spaces, setting up DV spaces for men and so on.

Men need to care enough to want to take action instead of jumping in on women's conversations and actions yelling what about men it happens to men people aren't talking about men.

Literally nobody is stopping them except them.

And yet here you are in a predominantly female space wanting us to talk about it and saying but there are men here too...

Yes. A few. A mostly female space is not where you go to talk about men combating male on male violence because no matter how many disclaimers you add, it smacks of wanting women to step in.

I agree.

Ask the dads first, particularly the deadbeat ones who fucked off.

I too am sick of it being women’s job to deal with male violence. Really, men’s job should be to address violence male violence against men and women. Women’s job should be to support female victims of male violence.

As a mother of sons I too worry about male violence toward other males.
My contribution was ( I hope) to raise men who are respectful towards men, women and children and who never, ever resort to violence against anyone.

It is everyone's job to tackle male violence

The women who work to bring up decent men

The women who take their children and leave abusive men

These are women actively working to prevent male violence

Thank you to all those women

Male violence is a societal thing as much as a male thing - it is much higher in sone societies than others

Yes there is little any individual can do ( male or female ) and PPs have mentioned things that can help also

I think the discipline needs to come from the home environment to be effective - as you've said parents that don't guide their children are likely to react badly to it (as will their kids) and this path will likely end with the kid disengaging from school.

I think peers can be hugely influential - I've watched that with my son and his friends. Kids supported by their friends are more likely to choose better paths. Without parental support and guidance it's still tough but if they have friends who are a good influence they are less likely to join a gang or just drop out.

Have you ever actually talked to a man about this? The majority of them learn conflict avoidance in the playground from a very early age. They cross the road to avoid larger men at night, they change their routes to avoid rough areas, they avoid loud groups of people at all costs, when they enter a loud pub they scan the room for exits and potential trouble etc. These are all things that men do automatically out of self-preservation because they know that assholes exist and the consequences of getting it wrong outweigh the inconvenience, yet we seem to complain about the very suggestion.

I've lost count of the number of young men I've seen in pubs and clubs trying desperately to calm down their overly-aggressive girlfriends who are about to start a fight - because she knows the bloke they're provoking is highly unlikely to hit her in public, and the guy knows he's the one who's going to end up getting punched in the face.

@ntmdino "I've lost count of the number of young men I've seen in pubs and clubs trying desperately to calm down their overly-aggressive girlfriends who are about to start a fight....."

You know something? I just don't believe you. I'm sorry.

It's important to remember that men are parents too.

The first part is true, we avoid the risk of violence, can be intimidated by certain groups of men and try hard to not be part of anything that looks like it might kick off. I know it’s not quite the same as womens (quite correct) fears but it is what a lot of us feel and do

the second part, not so much. Yes it does happen, yes I’ve seen women kick off at men in the knowledge they won’t be the one getting punched. Can’t say it’s common

the usual caveats apply, only my experience, and I’m aware I’m not your “typical” bloke

I used to see it all the time in my 20s (back when I had a social life) and since then quite often at gigs. I'm aware that those things put me in places that most MNers probably wouldn't be, of course.

The obvious problem with the "men need to sort this out" issue is that the specific subgroup of men who have violent tendencies can't be persuaded to stop by a single man, or even a small group of men; from the instances I've seen, it's only when it's blatantly obvious that all roads lead to a stay in hospital that there's a chance of calming it down, and even then it's probably only a coin-flip. Once they've got to that state, they can't be reasoned with, they can't be mollified, they can't even be bought off with a pint or five - either because they can't think past the end of their nose, or because they don't particularly care about the consequences.

Yes.

but to refer to my previous post, women are still taking on the burden of home and child rearing.

we are still, in general, seeing women actively making the choice to give up work to be sahm.

therefore women still have the main child rearing responsibilities. women are with the children the majority of the time, making the choice to be at home with them.

women are also buying into the stereotypes, and as pp have said, girls are still being socialised to #bekind, and boys are getting away with physical rough and tumble because boys will be boys and it’s not being stamped down in childhood.

Until more women stop making the choice to become sahm, stay in the workplace, and force men to step up the parenting instead of being able to abdicate it in favour of the financial responsibility, I don’t think much will change.

@toomanytonotice Nothing to stop men changing their behaviour not to buy into that. They don't have to wait for women.

There are days when I feel sympathy, but today is not one of those days. My daughters have been advised not to walk through the park because a girl got raped there. I want to know why they don't advise that no men walk through the park, so women and girls aren't continually punished for the behavior of men.

Men commit the vast majority of violent crime, men are the majority of victims of violent crime. Sounds to me like all men need to be locked up, either for their own safety or the safety of others.

The above is tongue in cheek obviously, I'm not actually advocating for all men to be imprisoned, but I do think that it's only when it starts to affect the majority of men negatively that anything will get done.

do you really think a man gets a choice to be a sahd?

all the sahm on here, was it ever a question which parent would give up work?

if your partner said actually, no, you can work full time and I’ll sah and take care of the house and kids, women would be ok with that?

@toomanytonotice the choice is usually made on economic grounds. And on societal expectations. Do YOU think that the country is full of men longing to be SAH parents but denied the opportunity?

I'm not sure I understand your argument. "It" already does affect the majority of men negatively - men are overwhelmingly the more likely victims of murder and violence, wherever you look all over the world. They already do take the precautions we (as a whole) rail against.

Looking at it from another perspective, I'd say it's the opposite - 75% of criminology students and 80% of psychology students are women. Surely they'd be best placed to "do something about it"?

No, it doesn't affect the majority negatively. The majority of victims are men, yes, but it doesn't follow that the majority of men are victims.

Look at all the things women do to protect themselves, what do men do? How do they change their lives to protect against male violence?

All women are advised to restrict their lives around the idea that male violence exists, what comparable advice is given to men?

So sad the "Not my problem" mentality on here. If you love your sons, dad or any other man in your life it fucking should be. Why is there so little talk about men being attacked whilst on a night out.? Where's the Sarah Everard level of disgust when a young black boy is found stabbed to death? I think both men and women need to make some noise on the issue because frankly few people seem to give a shit about protecting men.

But what am I, as a woman, meant to do about male on male violence?

This is like saying, it's black peoples' job to fix white on white violence.

That's not what we are saying.

Who is stopping men from protesting? Who is stopping men from starting services? Helplines? Refuges?

Who is stopping men from talking about male on male violence?

What people are saying is that men should not expect women to create services for men that men don't consider important enough to campaign for or start.

Why do men talk so little about men being attacked whilst on a night out? Why don't men seem to care? Why don't men protest? Why don't men campaign to raise awareness and improve safety? Why don't men start helplines? Build networks? Start shelters? Start support groups?

if men aren't doing these things, why is that?

A few things men can start doing today to make a better society. Not all specifically relevant to this post, but all relevant in a broader sense
. 1.Take full responsibility for their fair share of domestic work and childcare.

1. Challenge sexist/ misogynist/violent talk and behaviour every time they see it and wherever they see it
2. Stop using prostituted women.
3. Challenge sexist work practices-for example making sure that any panel, board or committee they are on at least represents the sex balance of the organization - if necessary refusing to go on it if it isn't.
4. Stop watching porn.
5. Stop buying and playing sexist video games, and films that don't pass the Bedschel test.

7)Think about how they parent their boys, and remember that they are the next generation of men. And that they are the man their children will learn by about relationships from. 8) Make sure that they acknowledge, and let their children see them acknowledge, the contribution their wife or partner makes to the family. This is particularly important when she is a SAHP.