How do you think schools should punish children?

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

A lot of ‘school refusal’ and problems in education is associated with poor behaviour from other pupils on here. Yet whenever a poster’s child is reprimanded they seem outraged and feel the teacher is picking on their DC for no reason. They often think the (perfectly reasonable sounding) punishment is too harsh, or their child should’ve had more warnings.

So I’m interested in how you think schools should actually discipline pupils, taking into account this also means your own DC?

@SweatyLama I wasn't referring to criminal activity not sure where that leap was made

Children are immature though and they need guidance and shaping.

I think they are not mini adults but that's stating the obvious 😀

Ok. So what does you mean, when you ask
What place in society will these people have if they have never been punished for bad behaviour? What do parents of these children think will happen in 3-4 years time when they don't have a school to send them to?

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

I am asking what do parents of delinquent and poorly behaved children think will happen to them when they leave school? They will not magically be able to behave properly in the adult world. Who takes responsibility for them once they are not at school? Are you denying a link between poor behaviour at school leading to poor prospects in adulthood?

they need guidance and shaping

• *As well as adults who do not know the rules when entering a new community. But in this case adults do not resort to pressure, manipulate or punishment. It is enough to announce the rules and help them remember. I think they are not mini adults but that's stating the obvious I see the main difference, children do not have power as adults, so it is easier for them to hurt. And adults use it.

I deny that punishment can correct bad behavior. Bad behavior is caused by several reasons. If the reasons are not eliminated with age, then these reasons will be the reasons for bad behavior in future. Some causes may go away with age. But most of them don't.

How do you think we should protect innocent children who want to learn and thrive from the destruction and distracting behaviour of children who have behaviour issues?

I kinda agree with you - punishment doesn't seem to be a deterrent for some. When they have no respect for themselves let alone others, a detention etc means nothing. But these children will one day be adults and something should be done earlier to intervene. How should schools be dealing with these badly behaved children?

Firstly I think there needs to be a huge investment in sen provision which will probably help with some behavioural challenges but also there does need to be something else for the most disruptive kids.

There is a boy in my daughter’s y3 class who is uncontrollable. He is rude to staff, hurts other kids etc and it will be a miracle if he’s not expelled before the end of primary. Problem is he doesn’t give a shit about time in isolation, time with the head, threats of removing school trips, play times etc. school has done everything they can really but what can you actually do when a child so young is so disruptive and doesn’t care about the punishments the school can issue? The good kids then get pissed off because they see children like this getting special rewards for not being a dick and they’re like ‘what do I have to do to get noticed?

It starts at home. Behaviour contracts signed by parents, child and school with clearly and enforced consequences. Agreed to at the beginning of each school year.

Consistent application of the consequences, without fail. Permanent exclusions for violence, drugs, pornography, bullying. Every single time, no exceptions.

Setting the students who want to learn on fire to keep the disruptive ones warm sets a terrible precedent and should never be allowed.

Mandatory, daily PE - basketball, athletics, strength training. If the government invested a little bit in better programmes to get children (especially teens) moving, I would love to study the impact.

Editing to add - absolutely NO MOBILE phones either.

There is no punishment, ebcause they go on to adulthood, do the same in college, at uni, or work and behave in the same way. And get away with it. The amount of bullies Ihave worked with, incompetent managers who do f* all but blame others. It's not new.

To do this, you need to solve the problems of children with bad behavior. Find out what causes this behavior and eliminate these reasons.

The reason - especially with older children is often, piss poor parenting.

No boundaries at home, poor diet, poor sleep hygiene, lack of exercise, screen addiction. I don't see why schools should have to make allowances for this. Send the child home and make the parent take responsibility.

modern pedagogy has the tools to solve these problems, but adults do not want to invest in them. It’s easier the old fashioned way, to punish. but this is ineffective. for all children and people. So punishment is taught only to avoid punishment. so some people quietly throw garbage, or steal, and do other bad things when they are sure that they will not be punished. and they don’t do it only because they are afraid. and not because littering and stealing are immoral.

Can you even hear the hypocrisy of that statement? The fact that you call it ‘silly’ is very telling.

Why shouldn’t children be treated equally?
Genuine question.

Children spend most of the day at school. With sufficient resources, this is enough to help the child. However, most often schools do not have such a task now.

I am a new here. I see that you have edited your posts. Could you tell me please, how can i do it?

Perhaps they need to bring back borstals

The whole idea of ‘punishment’ for children misses SO much of the story. It is an easy answer for adults to control children. People justify it by saying well it’ll ‘teach them a lesson’ but this is far too simplistic and shallow thinking.

Some posters have alluded to it, but this whole thread, this whole issue misses one HUGE glaring point; children are not born ‘naughty’, they react to the world around them. As adults we must look at the root causes of WHY children are ‘misbehaving’ in school. We need to delve further, think deeper and look at the environment itself.

As an ex teacher, I think that the environment itself is to blame. Yes there are some parenting issues (another example of a dysfunctional environment right there too), yes the ‘well behaved’ children shouldn’t have to put up with the disruptions or worse the bullying but a punishment is too simplistic and is a blunt tool.

I truly believe the whole concept of school, especially today with our under-funded, highly pressurised, narrow, teach-to-the-test, ‘one size fits all’ system is to blame. We shove kids into institutions with other kids of the exact same age, we make it competitive and we impose our adult standards on them. We give them no choice in what they learn, what is important to them, we remove their right to learn through play, to follow their own interests (until age 16 when they can finally choose subjects that they love), we sit them as desks all day under artificial lighting in stiff polyester clothing, we teach them that academics are the be-all-and end-all of a successful life (which is bullshit, especially today), we set arbitrary rules so that the institution runs smoothly and we expect them to not argue or complain.

Of course some children can’t be a perfect well behaved worker bee in that situation. The environment only suits a minority of them. It’s insane to expect all kids to be able to function well in school and then punish them for it when they can’t. I’m not saying bullying or violence is in any way acceptable of course. It’s a tricky one as it’s a system we’ve designed and they have no say in it whatsoever so of course some will rebel.

I could go on but I realize it’s a long post.

😂 good one.

My son has ASD and is struggling. The school can’t meet his needs. His therapy was cancelled and he attempted to escape school. He was climbing fences and it took two members of staff two hours to calm him down.

His brother refuses school constantly. He also refuses to comply with school punishment. Even when they try to walk him to the isolation room he just tells them “no” and goes somewhere else. He doesn’t really feel remorse or guilt. He knows he has a certain level of power over adults, and they can’t make him do things.

i have no idea. The whole system is broken. I feel broken.

Another thing that this conversation is missing is that we need to urgently look at the problems we have at a societal level that affect children:

Growing deep inequality
Increasing poverty
Cost of living crisis
Environmental problems
Child health problems and lack of adequate healthcare/underfunded NHS
Huge gap between affordable housing and wages.
Lack of early interventions/surestart type policies

The impact of of this has on children should be a HUGE part of this conversation.

Nothing like an ex teacher solsticelove to put education to rights. Why didn’t you stay if you had it all worked out?

Decent mainstream for those children who are wanting to get an education. Those who are disruptive or have needs that can't be met in mainstream should have other educational options. That way all children are having their needs met. It is very unfair that 90% of children are losing their education due to the behaviour of the minority.

I don't think they should. If a students behaviour is unacceptable in the school environment after warnings, really they should be removed from it back to the care of their parents to deal with. Alongside that there should be external sources of support for parents to address behaviour issues.
I think the idea that teachers (who's role is to educate) will also be able to keep students safe from each other using only methods that do not upset anyone, and somehow miraculously bring about behaviour improvements along the way is pie in the sky, and hugely unfair to them.
Little by little we have eroded discipline in favour of individual expression, changed the focus from what is done to someone to what is felt by the person doing it, and prioritised non compliant children over compliant ones, and within this context teachers face an unwinnable battle.
Time to take the pressure off. Let schools get on with their job of educating those who participate appropriately, and manage those who dont elsewhere.

I agree with a lot of this. Schools are mostly suboptimal environments for children to thrive in, especially if ND, disabilities or sensory issues. Children are inside too much, too sedentary, not enough play at too young an age. And a lot of secondary schools should be quite frankly ashamed of the avoidable anxiety that their rigid and inflexible regimes inflict on their pupils.