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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To still be really sad and angry about Brexit

285 replies

OptimismvsRealism · 03/06/2024 17:27

It really reduced the opportunities in my future and has achieved absolutely nothing of benefit for anyone else (besides disaster capitalists who made a mint off the financial manipulation effect). We haven't even avoided those stupid fecking tethers on the bottle lids!

When the extra immigration checks come in in October it's going to make every holiday a tiny bit upsetting.

And the new government won't even try to fix it.

Don't get me wrong I'm not one of those idealists singing ode to joy before breakfast but on a personal level it bloody sucks and seems likely it always will.

OP posts:
Lassi · 04/06/2024 11:41

Very interesting read.

tallcurvey · 04/06/2024 11:42

@Corinthiana

utter nonsense.
its a stupid concept
in this global world

even in the Second World War we had allies
nothing is done alone so you are talking about some stupid concept especially versus the harm done.

Lassi · 04/06/2024 11:43

I also found it quite revealing that the same people who were saying Brexit was an affront to democracy organised a petition to overturn it. A petition! Some people have absolutely zero self-awareness.

Shakeoffyourchains · 04/06/2024 12:50

Lassi · 04/06/2024 11:43

I also found it quite revealing that the same people who were saying Brexit was an affront to democracy organised a petition to overturn it. A petition! Some people have absolutely zero self-awareness.

In what way did you find it revealing?

Are you suggesting that democracy is a one time thing or that the results of an advisory referendumin which only 33.5m people, out of a population of 65m people (46m eligible voters and 19m ineligible voters), had a say should be forever binding?

Lassi · 04/06/2024 13:01

I think I can say with some confidence that a referendum, advisory or otherwise is more democratic than a petition @Shakeoffyourchains

PollsCantBeTrusted · 04/06/2024 13:26

The UK will be fine.
I expect to see the UK economy continue to outgrow the EU over the coming decades, overtaking Germany in the late 2030s or early 2040s to become Europe’s number one economy. This should heal the political divide and usher in the restoration of mature political discourse.

I am far more concerned about the future of the EU without the UK’s moderating influence.

We already saw the first cracks appear immediately after Brexit, when faced with the two great crises of the twenty-first century; Covid 19 and Ukraine - the EU behaved shamefully. One possible scenario I envisage is the complete collapse of the EU within 15 years.

For continental Europe is now set on an glide path which will see more nations embracing rightwing politics as the Union’s cohesion slowly ablates under the insurmountable pressure from globalist immigration policies which are incompatible with western culture.

Civil unrest will proliferate and unless the Commission makes major reforms, more nations will follow the UK out, first as a trickle which will build to a runaway chain reaction of <insert name>exits.

Tens of thousands of ex-eurocrats will ultimately be left pensionless as departing members refuse to pay their divorce bills and there will be zero appetite among the public to reward the failed technocrats who caused the crisis.

This will precipitate a Euro currency crash and the unfinished business of the Euro sovereign debt crisis will flush-through the banking system first to go under will be the French and Italian banks with high euro debt exposure.
The newly-liberated central banks will then be forced to re-adopt Europe’s twentieth century fiat currencies.

As ex-members liberate their sovereignty and restore democratic accountability people will begin asking tough questions such as: ‘Where did our money go?’ Which will all amplify the EU’s unresolvable contradictions as the arrogance, maladministration and corruption of its leaders is ultimately exposed.

In the final analysis the EEC will be remembered favourably, Brexit will be seen as fortuitous and timely but future historians will forever associate the EU with corruption and decline in a stark reminder of the historical truism that every time throughout history, whenever someone tries to unify Europe, it always ends in a bloody mess.
Hopefully I’m wrong, but this scenario is certainly not outside the realms of possibility.

HappyHolidai · 04/06/2024 15:00

@PollsCantBeTrusted

Toy write in a very assured manner. Do you have any knowledge or insight to back it up? What is your area of expertise?

GentlemanJohnny · 04/06/2024 15:09

tennesseewhiskey1 · 03/06/2024 18:28

Sorry - your not wishing that he was in an air crash so brexit wouldn't have happened? Surely not.

Yes, I bloody well am.

Corinthiana · 04/06/2024 15:27

tallcurvey · 04/06/2024 11:42

@Corinthiana

utter nonsense.
its a stupid concept
in this global world

even in the Second World War we had allies
nothing is done alone so you are talking about some stupid concept especially versus the harm done.

We still have allies.
We're in NATO.

Therapy4all · 04/06/2024 15:45

Yes, I am still furious. And always will be.

I will be jumping through the hoops to get an Irish passport thanks to my father/grandparents. I wish I had done that for my children, instead of the British passport.

Therapy4all · 04/06/2024 16:25

Therapy4all · 04/06/2024 15:45

Yes, I am still furious. And always will be.

I will be jumping through the hoops to get an Irish passport thanks to my father/grandparents. I wish I had done that for my children, instead of the British passport.

Edited

Just checked and I don't even have to jump through the hoops, I am automatically Irish! That has made my day, week, month and year!

Abhannmor · 04/06/2024 16:48

JourneyToThePlacentaOfTheEarth · 03/06/2024 18:51

I will never get over it. I have family members who voted for brexit and I regularly ask them if they're happy now??? I'm sad for my kids and for the country. What a waste of time and a waste of resources. If people knew the amount of working hours and funding it took the civil service to get to this stage they would never think brexit was a good thing

A friend of mine worked on tariffs since the 1970s with Customs & Excise. He took early retirement a few years ago and was later asked to come back on his own terms. But he can't face it , says it will take decades to unravel.

Abhannmor · 04/06/2024 16:54

Therapy4all · 04/06/2024 16:25

Just checked and I don't even have to jump through the hoops, I am automatically Irish! That has made my day, week, month and year!

You are automatically Irish through your dad. For your children you will need to get a Foreign Birth Registration certificate. Just have to collect a few more documents. Worth it though. One of my Brexit voting relatives has done it. Sigh.

Therapy4all · 04/06/2024 23:18

Abhannmor · 04/06/2024 16:54

You are automatically Irish through your dad. For your children you will need to get a Foreign Birth Registration certificate. Just have to collect a few more documents. Worth it though. One of my Brexit voting relatives has done it. Sigh.

Thank you!

Reading online can be a little confusing, I didn't know if my daughter could apply her first passport as Irish as I am 'technically' Irish. But you're right, so thanks for the heads up.

I can't wait to get mine. My life plan includes some living on the continent. It's actually quite exciting to know that I can just apply for mine! And I'll happily do it for my kids and see about them studying abroad etc

I know a Brexit voter who wanted to retire in Spain, so I feel your pain!

SirAlfredSpatchcock · 05/06/2024 02:00

Whatafustercluck · 04/06/2024 08:13

OK, I'll bite.

How is the UK today materially and tangibly better as a result of leaving the EU? What is great about the UK in 2024 that did not exist prior to 2016?

Whether you agree with their reasoning or not, it's very normal for countries/nations/states to undergo financial struggles for years immediately following independence.

Did those who voted Yes in the Scottish Referendum believe that they would be instantly richer and living a more privileged lifestyle as soon as they went their own way, or did they expect that it would be a rough old ride to start with, but one that was well worth it for the far greater gains and freedoms that they believed would eventually be theirs as an independent country? Or were they all just 'racist little Scotlanders'?

Some people do believe that temporary - or even permanent - losses of wealth/privilege/opportunity in some areas are a price worth paying for independence and freedom. If you were married to an immensely rich man who provided you with every material and financial benefit that you could possibly desire, but it became clear to you that he despised you, took you for granted and treated you like an employee, would you be 'crazy' for divorcing him, or would you think your independence and self-respect was worth more than all you could keep if you stayed quietly compliant in the gilded cage? They may well have been deceived, but I believe that this is how a huge number of Brexit voters probably felt.

Again, whether you believe that he was telling the truth or not, Farage's proclamation was that he wanted to be 'friends with Europe, trade freely with Europe, but not ruled by Europe'. However achievable this was/is in reality, can you honestly say that this sounds an openly fascist/hateful/racist/incendiary/absurd desire?

Like with the blatant £350m a week bus lie, it's hardly the first time when voters would have made their decision based on 'facts' and promises from their political 'superiors' which turned out to be outright lies.

Until the point when political promises, proclaimed principles and manifestoes are made legally enforceable, with regular independent 'appraisals' and the threat of severe punishment for those who break them or do a sudden about-turn once they're safely elected, what alternative does the average person truly have but to hope that everybody who seeks their vote is not lying through their teeth? I personally blame the liars far, far more than I do those who fell for the lies.

Sausagenbacon · 05/06/2024 06:52

Yes.
And it should be remembered that politicians also made lurid claims about what would happen when we left the EU. Which didn't happen.

Wheredidileavemycarkeys · 05/06/2024 07:41

Whatafustercluck · 04/06/2024 08:13

OK, I'll bite.

How is the UK today materially and tangibly better as a result of leaving the EU? What is great about the UK in 2024 that did not exist prior to 2016?

In what way is it worse? What difference does it make really?

Shakeoffyourchains · 05/06/2024 08:29

Lassi · 04/06/2024 13:01

I think I can say with some confidence that a referendum, advisory or otherwise is more democratic than a petition @Shakeoffyourchains

A petition is as much part of democratic process of this country as a referendum. In fact it's probably more democratic seeing as there's no restriction on who can start and/or respond to one.

Why do you think that providing everyone in the country with a means of having any topic or issue they feel is important brought before government (providing it meets certain thresholds of support) is undemocratic?

Lassi · 05/06/2024 09:15

Shakeoffyourchains · 05/06/2024 08:29

A petition is as much part of democratic process of this country as a referendum. In fact it's probably more democratic seeing as there's no restriction on who can start and/or respond to one.

Why do you think that providing everyone in the country with a means of having any topic or issue they feel is important brought before government (providing it meets certain thresholds of support) is undemocratic?

If you genuinely believe that, you don’t understand electoral law at even the most basic level.

SurelySmartie · 05/06/2024 09:28

fungipie · 03/06/2024 19:39

Yes, worldwide, but much much worse in the UK BECAUSE of Brexit, and much higher cost of importing food, labour, fertilisers, etc, etc.

And yes, water treatment too, due to massive increase in cost of importing water treatment chemicals, especially with a failing Pound.

That’s not actually true. Inflation year to April in the UK is 2.3%.
It’s 2.4% in the eurozone and 3.4% in the U.S.

The biggest problems in the UK are nothing mostly to do with Brexit.

I’m not actually bothered about Brexit either way. Most people who voted, voted for it, so it’s right that’s what we did.

Farage is nothing like Hitler, he’s not advocating exterminating people. I don’t think wanting stricter border control makes someone a terrible person. Many countries do like the US, Canada, Switzerland and Australia. I’m not a Farage fan but at least he’s a conviction politician who means what he says. He does what he says as well. He’s a leader. I would believe/ trust him more than Sunak and Johnson. Starmer doesn’t seem to be able to answer a question.
I don’t like Farage and wouldn’t vote for him but I can respect him.

parkrun500club · 05/06/2024 09:30

Lassi · 04/06/2024 11:17

The best thing about first past the post is it’s kept the cranks, including the LibDebs out of power. Unfortunately there was that one time in 2010 when they sold us all up the fucking river.

In what way, other than tuition fees, for which they rightly deserve criticism.

I think once the Tories got an overall majority in 2015 it became clear how the Libdems had been keeping them in check.

However, if we didn't have FPTP there would have been a lot of UKIP MPs. Not sure we'd have wanted that, although I would like to see a more proportional form of representation. I live in a safe Tory seat so my vote is always wasted.

parkrun500club · 05/06/2024 09:32

Sausagenbacon · 05/06/2024 06:52

Yes.
And it should be remembered that politicians also made lurid claims about what would happen when we left the EU. Which didn't happen.

Did they? I think pretty much everything of "Project Fear" has become "Project reality" has it not?

The only thing I was wrong about (and thankfully so) was that the Tories would immediately dismantle employment rights. I think that was to do with covid, though.

EasternStandard · 05/06/2024 09:32

fungipie · 03/06/2024 19:39

Yes, worldwide, but much much worse in the UK BECAUSE of Brexit, and much higher cost of importing food, labour, fertilisers, etc, etc.

And yes, water treatment too, due to massive increase in cost of importing water treatment chemicals, especially with a failing Pound.

I’m not sure that’s correct re inflation. Looking it up

UK Inflation Rate is at 2.30%,

tallcurvey · 05/06/2024 12:59

@Sausagenbacon

jesus your grip on economics is poor.
if you think many of the things predicted after Brexit haven’t happened

worse economy than the block even ignoring Covid over the last two years
higher energy costs
hugher than average inflation
weak pound
unblanced employment market due to stopping freedom of movEment
pointless tariffs
lack of significant free trade deals
lack of investment
firms leaving footie
crumbling infrastructure

and more and more and more

i run an international business and I can assure you the UK is an laughing stock and worse it’s suffering deeply and it hasn’t finished yet by a long way