Severe lies between our children and friends children HELP

[New15]

Long one so will try and compress down!

I have 14 (Boy) and 10 (Girl)
Lifelong friends have 2 kids 14 (girl) and 13 (boy)

these people we see every weekend, we holiday together have been through good and bad together and are so important to us.

Background being both my friends kids have been caught out lying about Drinking, Vaping, talking to adults in a sexual nature over the internet sending explicit pictures to other people in the last 6 months or so.
My kids are the model of good behaviour, neither have ever done anything wrong (I’m so lucky) my boy 14 is massively into sport so his health is priority. We have different parenting styles, I am more of a gentle parent with the others being the opposite.
Both my kids are always honest and upfront and have never done anything to not have my trust.

my Daughter 10 last week said she had something to tell me and got really upset.
2 weeks ago, whilst round their house. My daughter (10) went in their sons room (13) for a few minutes a which is totally normal and had said he was having sexual conversations with other friends over PS5.
he had turned and said sorry did you know about that stuff?, to which she responded “yes, I did sex education at school last week”
He then proceeded to show her on his phone what I believe to be porn. He also asked her if she knew what it was. At 10 years old she was trying to describe what she saw, but struggled as she didn’t understand it, however I knew what she was talking about straight away. She felt uncomfortable and pretended to need a drink to which he said, if she was to tell me, he would say it was her and she would get into trouble.

Now she does have Tourette’s and struggles with decisions and some emotions massively which is why I assume it’s taken her a week to pluck the courage up to say something.

I rang my friend and explained what I had been told and that I was so shocked by it. The friend apologised to which I said it’s not your fault but please speak with him and let me know.

we knew he would lie because he lies about everything until it’s black and white in his face to which he couldn’t lie.

my friend rang me back the next day and said her son (13) has swore down he absolutely did not show her anything. There was nothing on his phone. That he had said, she had overheard him laughing in about sexual stuff with his friends which he apologised for but that was it.
I explained, that what my daughter told me, she couldn’t have known, and the way she explained it proved she didn’t know what it was, only she knew it wasn’t right.
My friend then proceeded to tell me my daughter probably knows much more than she lets on, and I should baby proof her phone! (Her phone has always been for school walking only) and she doesn’t have access to the internet at all.
So basically my friend has took her sons word and now it is incredibly awkward.

what do I do?
this is someone who is considered as family. We love each others kids like our own, and despite her kids going off the rails a little and lying Iv always loved them like they are my own.

I don’t know how to approach it at all!

My daughter had asked what was going on and I had to tell her that they believe he is telling the truth. To which she broke down in tears, and said she wish she never said anything. Which makes it worse I want her as a young girl to be able to tell me things that make her feel uncomfortable and to be heard. - And this isn’t a little white lie or swearing ect. This is a teenager lying about showing my 10 year old something extremely sexual.

this whole experience as a parent has me overwhelmed.

Thoughts from an outside viewer are greatly appreciated!

My experience in school is that boys of that age are tech savvy but often get off with nonsense simply by denying.

We had one boy who physically barred the way of younger girls, sent them porn, spoke in an inappropriate manner to one of my young teachers...

Mum: "They were playing. His phone was hacked. It wasn't his fault - it was the play that they were reading in class." (The play included the word 'hoor' [sic].)

Maybe going against the grain here, but bear with me.

On the one hand, I think that your instinct to protect your children is right. I believe what you say about your children and I 100% believe your daughter.

However, if these friends are the closest thing to family to you, and your children consider their children their childhood besties, then terminating the friendship abruptly may not be the right solution.
One, you don’t want your daughter telling the truth to you being associated with loved ones abruptly exiting their lives.
Two, community is everything and in most societies, up until recently, you didn’t get to choose your family or your neighbours/ community. This forced people to be resilient and find ways to fix relationships unless the misdeeds were too fundamental.
What this 13 year old boy did and how his mother reacted were both very wrong, and in the case of the boy, but: 13 year old boys in general are often not well behaved, immature, selfish, etc. And in this case despite the appalling behaviour it does not seem like he planned it or intended to hurt her, he sounds more like an idiot trying to cover up his bad behaviour.
The mother’s reaction is more disappointing but I would give it time, people often react quickly to this sort of situation and with a few days get to see the mistake they are making.

if the mom maintains her position, or if you feel there was anything malicious in the boy’s behaviour against your daughter then yes, drop them…

Thank you for sharing this. I've stated that similar happened to me. There was a whole gang of 13 yr old boys preying on primary school girls when I was at school in the '60s.

One boy finished up in borstal. The rest weren't touched because our parents were either in denial or didn't want us being spoken to by the police.

Hard thing but I would probably shut down the friendship between you and their mum.

A serious incident where a minor has been exposed to sexual content should have serious consequences.

I think in your position I would try to be brave and phone her back, saying that since the situation is a criminal offence that you cannot sweep this under the rug and you're going to be taking it further.

I would take it further and I would tell my daughter that they're not welcome round your home because this is her safe space.

I disagree.

As someone who was the victim of something similar, I say protect the 10 yr old girl at all costs. Keep her away from the other family.

In my case, the first thing that happened was that the boys concerned showed me a picture in a porn magazine. I was 7 at the time. I remember trying to behave as though I understood what it was all about, but being very uncomfortable.

Then it escalated.

The OP knows that her daughter has been upset already. It takes a village...but at what cost? Don't risk sacrificing your daughter for community, OP.

Oh gosh what a drama. I had something similar when my DCs was young and there were a series of 'events' until I stopped socialising with friend and her DC. I carried on seeing my friend without the DCs for a few years but that petered out. You can't really be around them anymore unless you can see them without the children or keep the children supervised (not realistic at that age). I think give up on the 'who told the truth'. They likely want to believe their son but may know deep down he is lying. It doesn't really matter. Just say your daughter was really upset by what happened and you can't hangout anymore (but can still as adults maybe..)sorry, what a stress

Please stop letting your kids hang around with these other kids unsupervised before one of yours gets molested.

I think you’ve dealt really well with all this. Ignore the critics. Good job. Obviously the children can’t socialise any more. Whether you can maintain some kind of relationship with the parents is up in the air. I expect you’ll feel some grief about the losses of your close relationships, and that’s normal. But you will get through it and know you made the right decision

Without reading all of the other comments - my DD is 10. I have close friends with teenage sons. If my daughter told me this the police would be called and I would distance myself from their families. I saw your response to another reply saying that you didn't leave them alone. But you did - unless you were in the room when this happened. I think you're being defensive there but you asked for advice. I am guilty of this sometimes. I would take a huge step back and look at your actions and what advice you would give to another person in this situation. You have a 10yr old DD - what would you say if I had posted this about my own daughter?

How brave of your daughter and you sound like a great mum OP.

great advice already given but to add - please don’t minimise this or hide the reason from others. I would always want to know if my child was in contact with a friends child who had done this.

Not trying to scare you but information means parents can make the right decisions for their own families. Read this story and then make up your mind….Rosie May

Not sure whether there is any way back on this, but ideally your friend needs to point out to her son that, if he did have these pictures but deleted them, the police will still be able to find them. His reaction to that could speak volumes.

BBC link

trial showed he had committed “minor” offences before the parents had sadly swept under the carpet.

I would contact the police, OP.

It will mean the end of your friendship of course. But it sounds like all the children involved here need safeguarding. The girl has been groomed by adults. The boy's actions were sexually abusive. Your children need to be protected here.

This is all very serious and I think you have no choice but to involve the police.

My kids are the model of good behaviour, neither have ever done anything wrong (I’m so lucky

My older two are pretty damn good, OP, but blimey it's hubristic to say that out loud with a straight face.

For that reason alone, I'm wondering if this is a reverse.

I would contact the police and ask for advice. You can’t be expected to cover up a crime that involves your daughter, that’s way too much to expect of you. This is bigger than you and your friendship, deal with that later.

I am sorry for what you and your daughter are going through. Absolutely keep stressing to your DD how proud you are of her for telling you something she found difficult. It's understandable your friend wants to believe her son but what reason could she think your DD would have made this up? If his version was true your DD would simply never have told you anything, you would never have known.

Is it actually possible to completely remove all trace from a phone of websites which have been accessed? I would be checking with the police whether they can retrieve deleted material (and informing your friend and her children that "there's nothing on my phone" might not be a very good defence).

I think your friendship with this family has been very odd and enmeshed, particularly given how clear it is that you disapprove of these kids and the way they're being parented. Not one for now, but you might take some time to reflect on whether there were always unhealthy dynamics between you and your friend and what that might say about your own style of relating to people.

More urgently, however, I think you do have to involve the police and ss. I agree with the pp who said you protect your 10yo dd at all costs, but your friend's kids also need safeguarding imo. I did RTFT but may have missed it, but were ss involved with the older child when it came out they were being groomed online - and if not why not? I would worry that they've been exposed to grooming and abuse themselves, and it doesn't sound as though anyone in their life is taking that seriously. Your friend obviously won't thank you for reporting what's happened but that doesn't mean it isn't absolutely the right thing to do for her children, as well as for your own dd and any other children affected.

There is way too much sexual abuse of children, and there always was, but the one thing that has improved in recent times is that we're all much more aware of what it can look like and how much damage it does. That's no use if people in a position to intervene don't.

I’ve just had a friend go through a situation where her preteen was sexually abused by a 14 year old family friend, so OP you are doing the right thing taking your daughter’s side. I’d be telling the ‘friend’ in no uncertain terms that what your daughter has told you is a crime, that her son is a known liar and that given these two things we will be stepping back from the friendship.

Oh OP your daughter has been so incredibly brave. The other mum's response has been appalling though. I would seriously consider contacting the police or NSPCC for advice though, your daughter has been exposed to porn, which is criminal, I would not let that matter be swept under the rug by just avoiding the other family and ending the friendship. The boy needs a proper intervention not a Mum who minimises and victim blames!

I can't think of any of my Mum's friend's kids that I enjoyed hanging around with as a kid. I would have preferred not to. Just because you get on with the Mother it's easy to assume that your kids will be friends but actually your kids might be relieved that they don't have to see them any more. So I would remove that from the equation. If you look at it from her point of view, she is probably massively embarrassed at how her children have gone off the rails and are obviously left to do what they want on the internet. Her parenting style hasn't worked as when you get told off for everything, you end up only caring about getting caught. All of this stuff is massive for her to admit. I'd be distancing myself from them all, and seeing the Mum on your own if the friendship recovers.

I’m sorry about your friendship but your children come first and you need to separate them completely! Her children will harm yours one way or another if you allow it to continue.

I wouldn’t feel that my kids were safe around hers. I think you can assume that your friendship is dead in the water now, unfortunately.

It’s illegal to expose a child to porn. Tell his mum you’ll have no choice but to get the police involved if there is a repeat.

I have two dds—I would describe them at 8-10 as adorable, and perfect angels—because they were! And still are at 25 and 27. Not because I’m blind, or lying, but because its actually not unusual for children to be lovely. Why not? This high level of snarky bitchery aimed at OP for loving and respecting her dd is just weird.

You are 💯 doing the right thing. I’d actually be glad she’s reacted the way she has, because it will be easy to distance yourself and your family now. You need to keep your children away from hers and that would be much harder to do in a compassionate way if she admitted he has a problem. And he does, it’s not normal for a child that age to show porn to a girl that much younger.