Severe lies between our children and friends children HELP

[New15]

Long one so will try and compress down!

I have 14 (Boy) and 10 (Girl)
Lifelong friends have 2 kids 14 (girl) and 13 (boy)

these people we see every weekend, we holiday together have been through good and bad together and are so important to us.

Background being both my friends kids have been caught out lying about Drinking, Vaping, talking to adults in a sexual nature over the internet sending explicit pictures to other people in the last 6 months or so.
My kids are the model of good behaviour, neither have ever done anything wrong (I’m so lucky) my boy 14 is massively into sport so his health is priority. We have different parenting styles, I am more of a gentle parent with the others being the opposite.
Both my kids are always honest and upfront and have never done anything to not have my trust.

my Daughter 10 last week said she had something to tell me and got really upset.
2 weeks ago, whilst round their house. My daughter (10) went in their sons room (13) for a few minutes a which is totally normal and had said he was having sexual conversations with other friends over PS5.
he had turned and said sorry did you know about that stuff?, to which she responded “yes, I did sex education at school last week”
He then proceeded to show her on his phone what I believe to be porn. He also asked her if she knew what it was. At 10 years old she was trying to describe what she saw, but struggled as she didn’t understand it, however I knew what she was talking about straight away. She felt uncomfortable and pretended to need a drink to which he said, if she was to tell me, he would say it was her and she would get into trouble.

Now she does have Tourette’s and struggles with decisions and some emotions massively which is why I assume it’s taken her a week to pluck the courage up to say something.

I rang my friend and explained what I had been told and that I was so shocked by it. The friend apologised to which I said it’s not your fault but please speak with him and let me know.

we knew he would lie because he lies about everything until it’s black and white in his face to which he couldn’t lie.

my friend rang me back the next day and said her son (13) has swore down he absolutely did not show her anything. There was nothing on his phone. That he had said, she had overheard him laughing in about sexual stuff with his friends which he apologised for but that was it.
I explained, that what my daughter told me, she couldn’t have known, and the way she explained it proved she didn’t know what it was, only she knew it wasn’t right.
My friend then proceeded to tell me my daughter probably knows much more than she lets on, and I should baby proof her phone! (Her phone has always been for school walking only) and she doesn’t have access to the internet at all.
So basically my friend has took her sons word and now it is incredibly awkward.

what do I do?
this is someone who is considered as family. We love each others kids like our own, and despite her kids going off the rails a little and lying Iv always loved them like they are my own.

I don’t know how to approach it at all!

My daughter had asked what was going on and I had to tell her that they believe he is telling the truth. To which she broke down in tears, and said she wish she never said anything. Which makes it worse I want her as a young girl to be able to tell me things that make her feel uncomfortable and to be heard. - And this isn’t a little white lie or swearing ect. This is a teenager lying about showing my 10 year old something extremely sexual.

this whole experience as a parent has me overwhelmed.

Thoughts from an outside viewer are greatly appreciated!

I think the age gap between your DD and your friends children is now showing itself. Both of the friends kids are at senior school and are reaching puberty whereas your DD is still at primary and still a young girl. The age gap is now the issue and will remain so and possibly worsen the situation.
I agree with PPs who have said now is the time to start to separate your DD for her own peace of mind and safety. She won’t feel comfortable around this boy and it’s unfair to put her in that situation again.
Time for tough decisions, op, good luck x

They do not love your children like their own. This proves it. And nobody can.

he is a young predator. It’s difficult but you HAVE to sever ties. Your daughter is your priority.

You’ve done the right thing. Not only would it be near impossible to stay friends with someone who has accused your Dd of lying like this I’d also be concerned about your Dd being near this boy from a safeguarding pov.

Slightly different but many years ago my Dd told me something my mother had said/done. Dd was 11yo at the time and I fully believed her. The thing she said and the terminology she repeated was genuinely not something an 11yo would have made up. My mother denied everything even though it was something fairly typical of how she behaved. She said my Dd was a pathological liar who should be treated by a psychiatrist. I cut contact with her fairly soon after. Dd knew why and she was fine with it. I made sure she knew the situation was my mother’s fault, not DD’s fault. Your Dd will be fine.

@New15 Sorry to hear it, OP, but please bear with me, I have some questions. I'd obviously also be very upset if I heard all of this from my children but I'm also a very rational person and reading this I do think there are generally two sides to a story and it needs to be considered.

Firstly, you say that your children are basically 'angels', 'always tell the truth' (tbh, there are studies and studies about how the peak time of lying is in the teen years and virtually ALL kids do lie at times). and that the other kids have been 'caught out' lying, vaping etc.

Question 1: re vaping, lying etc how were they caught out? Was it your kids saying it or did you hear it from another source?

Question 2: it is a sad fact that too many boys are nowadays accessing porn at too early an age, often before 13 I seem to recall reading. Saying that a 13-year-old boy is still a 'boy'

Question 3: you say that your daughter has Tourette's Syndrome - apologies but one of the key symptoms of Tourette's is saying inappropriate things, often sexual. I'm not for a minute suggesting that your daughter started the conversation, but is it possible that she, due to her condition 'blurted' something sexual out that the boy then somehow responded to (not saying that was right)? Also, there is research to show that those with Tourette's have a significantly worse outcome in many ways so, as you say you are so 'relaxed', how can you be 100% certain what was ACTUALLY said in that room.

On the whole, I do believe in standing by your child but I think it's important to consider the context in this particular case.

Again, sorry you're having to go through this OP.

My daughters Tourette’s is motor tics only. So no nothing could have been blurted out. The only thing she struggles with is being indecisive which I think is the reason she hasn’t come forward with it straight away.

Other kids have been previously caught out by their parents not me,

it was 100% said in that room as the other boy confirmed pretty much 90% of everything my daughter said had happened except the worst part (to which he had said she was lying)

I have never said my kids are angels. But they have always been honest and upfront, have never lied to me. And have never given me any reason to distrust them.

That was very hard on your daughter telling her they have taken their son’s word that nothing happened , you say she broke down , poor wee soul.
Presumably she likes this family too until this happened so she must feel very conflicted she may wish she hadn’t told you, therefore you must reassure her that she did the right thing. I would go so far as to say the family will realise that their son was wrong in time and just say you are thinking of doing x or y this weekend and that family don’t like these activities , it’s been time for a change etc so she doesn’t blame herself for the ending of the family friendships.
I hope you don’t take the softly softly approach with your friends as you say you want to “chat “ about this, simply put you must keep your children away from this family now. There can be no going back, their son has abused your daughter and it could escalate. This mother will continue to defend her son, you must protect your children .

Ignore these weird “blame the dd posts.” There are always some weird subgroup of posters who feel the need to take the OP down a bit.

You need to prioritise your children !
u know your kids are not lying
what will it b next ??
u can’t trust this family !!! The children lie and the parents are enabling it ! Not a good recipe, keep your kids safe family more important than friends x x x x

I’ve had something slightly similar but not as bad I guess. I think to some degree it is normal to have these issues When there are kids in 1 family that hit puberty a couple of years before the kids in another family.

When they are all little, a few years age gap makes little difference. But the age gap between a 10 year old and a 14 year old suddenly becomes massive.

A few years ago, my 10 year old hung out in my friend’s 14 year old son’s bedroom whilst he was gaming and heard all sorts of language and topics and got very upset, embarrassed, uncomfortable and felt very out of his depth. I was downstairs drinking wine with the other mum.

When we got home he broke down and told me all about it. I felt absolutely awful for not protecting him but I honestly hadn’t clocked that my friend’s son wasn’t this sweet little boy that I’d known since he was a toddler any more.

That was the day that I stopped taking my kids round there when I went to see and socialise with my friend. It wasn’t her fault, but our boys were clearly at very different stages. Now that they are all in their teenage years I’m a bit more relaxed and would take them with me, but they have their own social group now so aren’t interested.

Please put your children first and protect them

I think I would be drawing a line under this. Something along the lines of “We have strict parental controls and supervision on dd’s phone. She is a primary aged child and even if she were to attempt to access hardcore pornography, the controls would prevent this. If you are deluding yourself into to believing your ds because the alternative is unthinkable, that is your choice. However, I am certain we all, you included, know the truth.”

Please give your dd a big hug from us and tell her that there are a whole bunch of women you’re talking to on Mumsnet and we all believe her. And tell her she did a really brave thing and whatever happens next, she is not responsible for how the other family behave and react.

School safeguarding lead here.

I would advise you to let your DD's school know about this via their safeguarding lead ASAP. I would also suggest you contact the safeguarding lead at the boys school as well.

Sorry that you are in this situation OP, horrible for you and your DD. I’m not sure that any friendships where you see so much of each other are ever straightforward, but some situations give off alarm bells and this is one of those times. I would be keeping my distance without a doubt and cutting ties ultimately. You will never feel comfortable around them again which is justified. The safety of your children is more important than any friendship.

So he’s 13 and she’s okay with him having conversations of a sexual nature. I’m sorry but I’ve got a DS of a similar age and regardless of the porn on the phone I’d be going mad about the stuff he’s admitted to. I also find it strange that he showed your DD that stuff. Stay well away if you want to protect your DD because her saying she wished she’d never told you sounds like she’s not going to raise the alarm in the future.

Trying to suggest that this is a 50/50 situation.

re 3 that is one type of Tourette’s that causes things like this and it wouldn’t be an out of the ordinary tic. Please educate yourself on Tourette’s.

It’s likely that a good majority of 14 year old boys have accessed porn. But most of them would be quite protective of a 10 year old family friend they have known for many years - a child like her would normally be in little sister territory. The fact that this boy still exposed her to porn anyway is an huge red flag and for that reason @New15 I would also notify the police.

It is likely with his tendency toward lying, the mother’s protectiveness of him and the behaviour so far, he will move on to another target.

Dear OP,
I wanted to adress what you mentioned about having been subjected to sexual abuse and if that could affect the way you reacted in this situation. I think you can tell from all the answers here that NO. You are being a responsible mother protecting your children. Unfortunately your friend is not doing a good job in protecting her children nor holding them accountable for their actions. If she is not able to admit that it's possible her son might be lying about this (especially since he has a history of misdeeds) it will be hard to move on from where you are.
It is crucial that your daughter knows you believe her and that she is not to blame (she might feel guilty for the break with this family). It's the son's fault for being inappropriate and the mother's fault for refusing to believe her son could be capable of lying and your daughter needs to know this. You sound like a sweet and caring person and I'm sure you got this. I feel sorry for your friend's children because they do need responsable adults in their lives to lay down the law and also be emphatic listeners to what is going on in their lives. But you have to protect your children and you are doing a good job so dont question yourself or feel guilty about anything. I wish you all the Best. 🌻

Fuck that he's a nasty wee fucker. Not so much looking at and showing porn but explaining that if she tells on him he will deny it, blame her and be believed. What a cunt!

I'm usually much more tolerant than others of people's bullshit but I think I would definitely be threatening to report this and quite possibly actually reporting it if the parents don't do a pretty sharp 180 and start taking this seriously. I would want to be talking about it with both kids and both sets of parents present. Right out in the open where there's no hiding. If someone doesn't intervene this kid is going to be raping someone

This means a lot, thankyou x

@Otherstories2002 It's called coprophenomena and is fairly prevalent at about 15% in someone with Tourette's in their lifetime. Motor tics are usually the first to appear, with coprophenomena appearing in early adolescence.

You educate yourself!

I agree with a previous poster. As soon as a parent says their kids have model behaviour, particularly that they 'have never done anything wrong', my ears prick right up. All children do things wrong. So you're not entirely telling the truth here. That, or you're completely delusional in your parenting. Which to be fair, tends to get the back up of friends, when issues do arise.

Also think explaining that you gentle parent, and they are the complete opposite, was really not relevant at all.

It's 6 of one, and half a dozen of another, here. You believe your child. She believes hers, which she has as much right to, as you do. It's unfair to judge that because your friend has been honest about her children's behaviour in the past - particularly the lying (again, there is not a child on this planet that has never lied, so I'm not sure what you're on, to be totally honest), that therefore whenever the child is accused of having done anything, it must be true. They actually, very often, tend to be the scapegoats, which doesn't help better their behaviour tbh.

FWIW, I think there's every chance he could have shown her porn. It also, could have been someone else (one of her own friends), and it's bothered your daughter, but knowing your friends kids have had issues with their behaviour, has named them being the culprits, instead of one of her pals (who I'm sure you'd then stop contact with). I've definitely seen this happen (albeit, in a different context). Think about it.

Seems odd that at 13 he's not at all worried about the police becoming involved, if he's lying. Most kids that age would be absolutely horrified by the thought of being trouble over things of a sexual nature. Tech savvy kids aren't bloody stupid - they know police can easily find things deleted on phones. He's either very stupid & deluded, or telling the truth. here. There's literally no other answers for his overconfidence otherwise.

There's only one way to know for absolute certain, isn't there, and that's to get the police involved. Dare I say it, a 13 year old boy, may not fully understand the ramifications of showing a girl around the same age, porn.

Seems obvious though, no more interactions going forward.

A very balanced post.

That boy is dangerous. Keep your daughter away from him.

When I was at primary school, I was groomed by some neighbours' boys. No sex ed in those days (1960s) and I didn't understand what it was all about.

I'm lucky - I wasn't raped, but what did happen left me emotionally scarred for life. The boy who assaulted me was 13. The boys were actually climbing over the wall of the municipal recycling centre and stealing porn mags.

I'm now a teacher. It's quite common for boys that age to try to groom younger girls via Snapchat etc.

OP personally I think you're slightly under reacting.

If a young lad you did not know approached your 10 year old daughter and showed her porn, what would you?

Try and find his mum and tell her or would you call the police?

As you are well aware this is not normal behaviour and according the NSPCC website is sexual abuse

Non-contact abuse
Non-contact abuse is where a child is abused without being touched by the abuser. This can be in person or online and includes:
showing pornography

I would never contact the family again, are all from the same religion or culture as seeing each other every single weekend seems intense.

Cut the family out your life and if the shared friends ask why, you tell them, tell them what the son did. Their daughters deserve to be protected too.

Call the police so that family know how serious the whole incident is. I think you're in shock as your whole social life and friendship groups are about to change.

What is your husbands input into this?