Friends child and gender change!

[Namechangeforthis44]

Don't know if this is the right place to post, but just need some input.
Meeting up with a friend soon, whose child has changed gender. I have no issues with that, live and let live.
BUT
Friend has indicated that we not reminisce about kids childhood as this will trigger her child.
As we have moved away, we only see them every few years, so the one thing we do chat about is their childhood memories.
I think it's unreasonable to tell my kids we can't talk about their memories while we meet up with them.
How do I tackle this?

Because this is what was said:

"I actually would not be taking my child to this visit/outing.

I refuse to gaslight my own child and pretend that the other kid isn't the sex they are let alone tell my DD to do that.

This is absolute BS."

So how will they protect their child from other trans children they may meet without their parent there?

For me, I wouldn’t ban any friendship my children chooses to have, and I teach them to be compassionate - especially for mentally unwell peers. But I would always make sure my children were absolutely clear that their eyes and feelings do not deceive them - a boy cannot become a girl and vice versa. I don’t think it is right or fair that a child with gender dysphoria should be able to dictate or compel anyone else to go along with their tenuous grasp of reality. There is nothing wrong with someone choosing to present as a stereotype of a gender if that’s what they chose to do, but biological sex is immutable and it is cruel to let a child believe otherwise.

At college I was the only female in my classes. One tutor called all the males by their surname, but insisted on calling me Ms Smith. He refused to call me Miss (I was very adamantly not Ms. I was 17 for a start), and refused to call me by just my surname.

HIS issue caused pain for me. It amounted to bullying as it wasn't anything to do with him being forgetful. It was just one microaggression amongst dozens, but they all added up and hurt me.

An accident will easily be forgiven. But deliberately calling someone by a name they don't wish to be known by is downright bullying. Pure and simple.

Your children probably understand it a lot better than you do. That some people are trans. That's it. Simple. Kids are so adaptable and amazing.

So how will they protect their child from other trans children they may meet without their parent there?

The poster isn't talking about hypothetical future situations, she's simply saying she'll avoid this one.

Why are you allowing a friend to upset you? Just tell him. If he continues he really isnt a friend is he?

Understood. Peak trans was postlock down - 50% of my child/teens classmates identifies as ‘trans’/pan/gay/bi. Every single friend she brought home id’s as opposite gendered or enby. And I do not exaggerate. It is only now they’ve all buggered off to uni and moved on to their new causes (Palestine/Israel; Just Stop Oil) and all dropped this one that my DD is realising it was a phase.

A long, painful phase that has meant she did not complete A levels, but is having to go back into adult ed to do an Access Diploma, and left her with scars on her arms. Plus lower self esteem and deeper anxiety & depression than she would likely have had had she not been told she was ‘special’, but been given counselling and therapy instead. She is getting that now and more happily accepts that she is a lesbian not ‘born in the wrong body’, and seems to have quite strong feminist leanings.

Teachers and peers affirming her, CAMHS and GPs affirming, society telling her mum n dad were evil because they didn’t, fed this cycle. I would never advise anyone to be rude and argumentative with such a child, or that of OPs friend’s child, as they are vulnerable and desperately in need of love and support, but I personally - knowing what I do now - would keep my friendship separate to our children and avoid engaging in any affirming interactions.

I do agree that there is a problem - which is why I fight for increased, suitable and excellent psychological support for young people who think they may be transgender (well, all people, not just young people, but young people are my main concern). Not gender affirming support, but proper psychological support to understand their feelings and ensure that only those are are truly transgender receive further treatment.

Trans is a ideological belief system or par with a religion. It is impossible to be born in the wrong body. We are embodied life forms, so your body is you and you are your body. That's it. Simple. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness or a social contagion depending on your viewpoint.

I disagree with that.

It's not many years ago the same was said about homosexuality.

People are not trans in the way that they are male or female or gay or straight. Kids are vulnerable to being brainwashed and told to accept things that are not fact. We should be understanding of anyone struggling with their gender identity, because they are victims of the bullshit gender crap that is placed on them by society, but affirming and encouraging our kids to accept this harmful ideology is not what we should be doing.

Fuck that. Give it a few years and try again.

It is not comparable. Being gay I’d something people just are. ‘Being trans’ is something that only happens because society has said boys like/do/wear this and girls like/do/wear that. It’s a societal construct. Being gay isn’t.

This is just lazy. They're not the same thing at all.

Homosexuality is about accepting people for who they are.

The TRA position is about forceful affirmation of what people are not.

Acceptance of homosexuality didn't require others to lie.

My family has been affected by this. It's very difficult. It's not unreasonable to feel that you shouldn't have to stalinise the past, and indeed that it's important to stand up to the demands of someone else that you do so. But my experience is that when things have reached this stage, there is the ever-present threat of estrangement hanging over things, and parents are terrified of saying or doing the wrong thing, which sadly can happen at any moment, however careful you are. Indeed, even if you manage not to say or do the wrong thing, you will often be treated as though you had regardless, because - again, in my experience and YMMV - there are generally other voices in the picture, who are primed to provoke estrangement. It's a minefield. I think you should respect the request, OP, but you don't have to like it or think it reasonable.

In what way is homosexuality not part of someone's physical sex? All my gay and lesbian friends report that they are gay. It's not a choice or identity for them. They haven't sought medical treatment for it. Liberation for them came with accepting their physical selves, not fighting against.

Gender ideology is in many ways a continuation of prejudice against gay people and the so called "affirming care" echoes the medical punishment for homosexuality in this country's not so distant past and in present day Iran.

I disagree with trans issues being spoken about in the same breath as homosexuality- completely different things. Homosexuality is inherently based within the binaries of biological sex. Gender dysphoria is a mental condition and the T should never have been hitched onto (or hijacked) the LGB. A person’s sex whatever their sexual leanings are, is expressed in every cell of their bodies.

It is so disingenuous to imply that someone who does not adhere to your gender ideology is somehow homophobic.

Agree with this - what my child needed were some fun LGB groups for 14-25yos to meet and socialise so she could meet older established lesbians, maybe those who were working, had graduated from uni, starting out in life and perhaps already with partners, so she could learn to feel comfortable in her own skin with other people like her. Instead the few that there are were captured and even tho she convinced herself she was trans, she didn’t want to hang out with the weirdos.

She just wanted people to go to gigs with, share the odd beer, game with, share her first kiss with, whilst feeling safe and accepted. But the movement is unutterably lesbophobic in an environment where straight, porn-exposed teen boys feel lesbian sex is theirs for the appropriation. As a girl who is actually very nervous of men, the thought of finding female-presenting ones in her spaces is deeply off-putting. We raised her to understand that being L or G (didn’t wander into the B) was normal, that the law protected them in the work place and family courts. They were equal and their lives/lifestyles as valid and varied as their hetero counterparts.

This movement has fucked that up.

^^ This is all you can do, OP.

Utterly ridiculous request. Her child needs to speak to a level-headed professional about how to manage this issue, because it seems exceptionally unhealthy to be unable to discuss something as broad as your entire childhood. If the idea of talking about "the past" is so "triggering", I'm amazed the teen will be able to see friends they knew in "the past" without freaking out.

Tbh, I'd be inclined to let these friendships fade (into... the past). Obviously you can't guarantee that your children won't refer to their shared past, just because that's one of the things people do when they meet up with friends they don't see often.

It's 30 years since I first worked, had a friendship, with a transwoman. Was it just society saying that then?

This. I assume no-one one is expecting to get together purely to reminisce at this encounter, and I’m sure the OP will attempt to remember to use the new name assumed by the child. However it’s unreasonable to tell people to erase and discard the past because someone has donned a new persona. It’s also difficult not to focus on something when you are told it’s forbidden.

People don’t like to be told what they can say, (by a fecking teenager, no less) and by extension what they should think. I would avoid mentioning prior shared fun times but swiftly change the subject if any of the special journey chatter comes up.

Namechangeforthis44
Thanks everyone for the diverse opinions and advice.
I'm not going to police my kids or myself. Our memories haven't changed after all. I will let my kids know the situation before we meet up, but I'm not going to monitor their speech.
Hopefully it’ll just be a nice meet up where none of it matters op and that you all have a good time. I think your friend is just trying to preempt any upset that could happen but in reality the odd bit of chat about days gone by probably won’t be a bother. All tough to navigate for all involved I’d say

You and your kids are being gas lighted into pretending the past didn't happen. Shame really if they have lots of happy memories of hanging out with the person who is now trans

Yes.

Do you think that 30 years ago there were not gender roles and expectations? There very much were.