Why don't women with kids force the dads to have them 50% of time?

[DontCheetoTheCheetah]

Disclaimer: I dont have kids and dont want them so prepared to accept my POV might be odd but...

...Just read a thread where a woman was talking about disputing maintenance costs with her ex and mentioned he never has his kids overnight, adding that its his choice.

Why wouldn't you just force them to have their kids? Im think if I were a mum I'd quite like to have half my time to just chill and have some downtime without my children? Or is it that when you have kids you cant bear to be wthout them?

ok...wonder how it work on a practical level for huge numbers of dads...imagine working at NMW, nrp dad of 2, currently lives in houseshare, not entitled to any assistance, pays CM, can't afford to rent a 2/3 bed. Will he get on housing bands for social housing, would he get top up benefits for when DC are with him.None are available for NRP at present.

The trouble is that trying to force an uninterested parent to take responsibility inevitably ends up with the kids suffering. I know, because I tried to make my exH step up. Ultimately, he doesn't care if the DC are unsafe/upset/go without, as long as he gets to do as he wants. I do care, and therefore will never win in a battle of wills with the DC in the middle. I tried it once, the DC suffered, so I didn't try it again. I am a responsible parent. He is not.

Society doesn't make it easy either. I was thoroughly judged by staff at the children's school, even though exH was the one who had failed to fulfil his responsibilities as a parent. He was the "poor man who couldn't be expected to cope", while I had let my children down Society expects non-resident fathers to be useless, so no surprise that they often are. There's no social pressure for them to be decent parents.

I don't think it is.

Given that our prisons are already so full serious offenderw are being let out early, the Police service is stretched to breaking point and serious criminal cases are taking years to get to court there is no way a law like this would actually be enforced. Can you imagine the additional man-power and resource that would be needed to police something like this?

Then there is the issue of whether it is actually in a child's best interest to spend equal time with a parent who has to be compelled by the law to engage with them, which is highly debatable. Having worked with children who have been severely traumatised by lengthy court proceedings between warring parents to determine custody, being in the middle of a protracted legal battle isn't something I would wish on the huge numbers of children who would be impacted by OP's proposal.

It's a simplistic, child-like response to a morally and legally complex issue. A bit like when my 6 year old said that people who litter should be given one more chance and if they do it again they should go to jail. I don't disagree with his sentiment but the idea itself is not grounded in reality.

Amen to that. 70/30 suits me as it means I know the kids are being looked after well (rather than lazily) the majority of the time, and frankly, I’d miss them desperately if they were away from me more than that.

Some parents see the children they chose to have as a pleasure rather than a “life burden” OP… I suspect that the ones who view them as a “life burden” are mostly the lazy dads who actively avoid 50/50 care.

That’s not what the OP said though, is it? She/he asked why the mothers don’t force the fathers to have the children 50/50. That’s the stupid part.

Even my 9 year old is laughing at your thread. My kids go Sundays 12 til 7 and Mondays 3 til 7. Kids don't wanna go the 9 year old is a sod she kicks off but does go he won't even have youngest Sunday night so I can take eldest orthodontics Monday morning

Would you force your kids to spend 50% of their time with someone who didn't want them about?

My ex once told me that he would see DD more, but I wont drive an hour to his house to get her to his. Bearing in mind he paid no money towards for her.

That shows just how much my ex is committed to his daughter.

I see your pov. And ideally I'd want my time as 24/7 parenting is HARD.

Equally, I wouldn't want my child in an envrionment where he/she/they weren't wanted and knew they weren't. I can't imagine how that would make them feel.

As hard as it would be, I'd want them to know they were loved and if that was the case, I'd take as much financially from the other partner to allow me flexibility to be there for my children. (I say partner because this scenario equally could be the other way around and it could be a father who is the main carer and the mother who doesn't want contact).

You can do this. What it would look like in practice is leaving them at school and school notifying social services when they arnt collected. They may get hold of the other parent, if not they may be put in temp accommodation overnight. Probably wondering WTF they did wrong and why their parents dont love them and mentally traumatised for life. So... id hope youd see why most mothers wouldnt do that to their children to force the other parent to parent.

Only on MN can someone saying how unfair it is that men get away with being deadbeat parents, be a reason to be piled on by women saying they’re stupid and all of the other insults posters have thrown at you.

Don't be disingenuous. No one is disputing that it's unfair.

Posters are, quite rightly, reacting to OP's assumption that women can just "force" men to be decent fathers becsuse it implies that women are somehow responsible for mens shit behaviour. Her subsequent, equally daft, suggestion that if they don't step up and have the kids 50/50 they can just be thrown in jail has not helped. It's naive, simplistic and not thought through properly.

If OP had posted "AIBU to think it's unfair that men get away with being deadbeat parents" then the response would have been very different, but she didn't. Instead she chose to focus on women's failure to magically 'make' them be good Fathers which is very different.

Thing is @DontCheetoTheCheetah it’s not in a child’s best interests to be cared for by someone who doesn’t want them there - you can’t force someone to neglect a child before you then could prosecute them under your proposed system… ok you’d prosecute these absent neglectful dads but you’d have children traumatised in the process.. far better to overhaul the CMS and make it illegal to not pay for your kids. Maintenance should be paid out by the state to resident parents and then claimed back from the other parent like tax with real consequences if it’s not paid.

Well I would never have forced my oldest to see ex who actually ended up with a court order no contact anyhow when he was 2 months old because the violence and abuse was so bad. 14 years later we are happy with our new life etc

Because kids are people too and have needs and preferences. Some people don’t mind moving back and forth between two homes each week. But for others it’s very unsettling. And because most parents can’t afford to provide a home each with a bedroom for their children. It’s enough of a struggle as a couple. And because if you view being with your children as a pleasure rather than a chore, you don’t want to force someone else to look after them.

You also need to think about some kids don’t want to go as well - my own siblings being an example. At the end of the day it’s about what the kid needs rather than the parent. My son struggles (he has ASD and while he starts school in September, he has GDD and is not at all near that age) at his Dad’s and is a different child here - but he does have him one night a week and every other weekend. However those nights are filled with me getting texts of complaints that he can’t cope with him, that he’s ’misbehaving,’ he won’t sleep, etc. Many fathers are like that, regardless of how their children are, they just can’t parent.

I’m not saying you’re wrong at all, they should have to do it - but for some kids 50/50 isn’t what’s best for them, but it’s also not at level of abuse or neglect either.

I love my children dearly and would be devastated if someone had them 50% of the time. My education is in child psychology and child development so I also have standards of care based on my education. I doubt someone who doesn't want their kids and is unwilling to fight for their kids would meet anything but the very bare minimum of care. Children can feel how much you love and care about their needs. Emotional neglect by someone meeting the minimum requirements of keeping them fed and housed, would have lasting impacts. Emotional neglect isn't something you can prove enough to criminalize. In fact neglect and many forms of abuse are very difficult to prove (I worked in the child protection system). Children take a lot of patience and someone being forced to care for them will be short tempered, again causing lasting damage to the child.

Funny...

We started almost 50/50 with him having Fri after school to Mon morning 3 weekends of the month. Then his new girlfriend wanted more time to herself so it went to 2 weekends. And later just Friday from 6 to Sunday afternoon. Funnily enough, her ex has her kids for that amount of time the 2 weekends mine isn't there.

You can't force (some) fathers to take interest in their own children, unfortunately. And you definitely can't force them to prioritise the needs of their kids over their latest bit of fanny.

Hahaha, you're funny, OP.

There's no way to 'force them'. And tbh, I'd really wouldn't leave my child with a man who needs to be FORCED to be with her. Doubt that would be a pleasant (or even safe) experience.

Would you like to spend time with someone who you know doesn't want to be with you/is forced to be with you?

My ex used to bang on about 'spending time with his beloved daughter' once I left him. Painted me as an 'unreasonable crazy hag', the lot. He wasn't abusive, but I was reluctant for DD to spend lots of time in his place for various reasons. However, she went from time to time.

Until his woman, who he cheated on me with whilst we were married, contacted me to let me know, that he brings my DD to her, drops her off and fucks off himself. Sometimes to work, sometimes who knows. Four hours and hours and hours. The woman (thankfully) was a normal woman (regardless of cheating) and took care of my girl, but still. She also had a pitbull.

So that was 'unforced' contact (which I put a stop to sharpish)..

The thing is OP, they’re not a burden at all. If you had them you would know that.

And I would sooner have them 100% of the time, well into my 90s and every minute of every god damn day than have them forced to spend a single second with someone who saw them as a burden. Father or no father.

Maybe the state and society should spend time raising and educating its boys properly instead, so they don’t turn into the kind of men who aren’t interested in their children.

Because we don’t want our kids to feel like pawns in a game, or not understand where their real home is

How do you force them ? And would you want your child going to someone that doesn’t want them , but is “ forced “ to ?

Also , there is a big difference between having some free time and not seing your child for 50% of the time . I have 3 children and 2 different dads for them ( also remarried , so I’m not with any of their dads ) . Two of my children see their dad one night a week ( used to be 2 but they’re older now and don’t want to go as much , no bad reason they just prefer it here with all their things ) I never felt I missed out with nothing with them , I had a nice bit of time to myself and I still have that one night but I didn’t have lots of time without them . However , my youngest is pretty much 60/40 . She loves going to her dads and is spoilt rotten there , she has 3 nights a week there and 4 with me . I think it’s great for her , she’s very happy and secure . But , for me - I hate it! I don’t feel like a “proper” parent ( no court order btw , just a dad who wanted to be very much involved and I have to put her feelings first and also realise she isn’t my property she has 2 parents and therefore 2 families ) I miss her so much when she isn’t here and I feel like I miss out on so much.

Other than me getting a plane to Australia from the midlands and dumping her on his doorstep, how would I enforce this?

Fuck off

You do realise most people who have children intend to stay together! Also there's plenty of men who have their children full time or happily do 50/50.