To wonder how mums of yore did it

[Peonii]

I just read on another thread that "you should only have as many children as you can cope with on your own" and "three kids is already too many for most people to handle".I feel like these are relatively new ideas as there were bigger families in previous generations. I only have one DC (14 months old)and with that limited experience I totally get those statements. I am in wonder at how mums juggle having babies, recovery, weight loss, back to work, emotional transitions, career progression, another baby, rinse and repeat. Before DC I really wanted four children. But honestly WTF. How the fudge do women do it!? I would still love a big family but I am terrified for a) my body (it's still healing 14 months later) b) my energy levels c)the lack of time I have for things that aren't family related eg. exercise or hobbies.

How do women do it? Men could never. I have never been particularly the "down with men" type but having a baby has completely changed my perception of what a successful man and woman are. But I'm waffling. I'm just curious how women have managed large families and careers and life. I am frazzled after just one.

Main thing: lower pre-freudian expectations of mothers. Ever since Freud came on the scene, mums have to be faultless otherwise we've traumatised our kids. Before that, it was ok to tell them off harshly, let them play outside by themselves, drop them off with random carers etc. Now, it's all about early years learning, sterilising, emotional attachment, 1-1 time with each kid, healthy diet etc.

I mean, no doubt it's all necessary. And I do all those gentle parent type things. But it is absolutely exhausting and I'm crushed by the impossible expectations

They didn’t have out of home exercise routines and hobbies, little Dilan and Jacob didn’t do tennis scouts basketball and football and need driving there, or have birthday parties every other weekend, but also mums didn’t get to sit and watch tv in the evening; they cleaned and sewed. They worked hard all the time, and didn’t get much in the way of me time. Hobbies were sewing and mending. Mums didn’t spend hours playing with their toddlers.
the kids did chores regularly, dressed themselves and the younger ones. Less toys is less tidying, and they played outside a lot. Dinner was one of 5-10 meals with limited variety and no one spent hours dreaming up new meals. The 6yo sets the table, the 8yo washes the dishes , the 10 does the rest of the clean up while mum baths the little ones.

i don’t know how women with huge families did it in years gone by, even if they were stay at home.

I Will definitely be passing on the message to my DC to only have as many as you can cope with on your own.

H and I had 3, very much wanted. We very unexpectedly separated and I found myself as a lone parent, working full time. It is beyond tiresome.

Previous generations had less expectations. There was no need for a dual income household and hence expectation to go back to work. Generally people lived closer to their family and had more support, grandparents were younger.
societal expectations of juggling it all were non existent.
Im not down with men at all…but I think there’s a lot more self pressure on a woman to handle it all. I’ve only got one child, and like you, sometimes bamboozled, but can see from zero to one is the biggest change.
The biggest influence is probably going to be your partner, are they equal, supportive, let you take the lead?

My mother's generation left school and went to work at 14.

I hear you!
I have one child. I'm 6 years in and I'm still frazzled 🤣 I've always worked and currently I'm full time.
BUT...I do most of the childcare/admin/house stuff as partner is a bit lazy/shit.

I think to not feel frazzled you need to have a husband who pulls their weight.
I also think having 'easy' kids helps.
DD has never been easy 😬
My mum had 2 under 2 and when we talk about it she always says she's a different type to me who was happy to stay at home with me and my brother. We were happy to do crafts and potter about in the garden or whatever. My dad went to work. That was more the done thing in the 80s/early 90s. It was also a safer world, there was no social media, screens, tiktok etc. We also did as we were told. No meant no and we knew it.
It certainly seems harder raising kids now. I think most people would agree.

How do women do it? Men could never.

Oh they can!
I dumped around 70% of child and house related workload on DH so when he is not pulling his weight he does 50%.

In the very old days close parenting only really happened until 3. After that point many children were working even if informally. Eg Dad’s job was to collect water from 3 and he used to walk 5 miles multiple times a day to do it. By that age my aunts were cooking.

in the 80s I was cooking 1 meal a day for 10 people by 5, providing childcare above and beyond my capabilities. Women with lots of children do rely on elder children a lot for support.

Do you mind sharing what that 70% is?

DH does most household chores but not cooking because a) I'm a fussy eater and b) we have different ideas of what cooking means. I also have separation anxiety and have inadvertently made myself the default parent. I feel however, the anxiety comes from a real place ie. DH doesn't always parent DC properly.

What does parent properly mean?

I'm in my early 60's and when I was kid it was completely normal for the older children in the family to help care for the younger ones. In larger families the oldest had a lot of responsibility - housework, childcare etc.

Mothers tended to be younger, grandmothers were often just in their 40's so there was more help there.

I was the youngest by years, and I know my sister resented how much responsibility she had and how much childcare she provided. Totally different world, really.

I hear you. My gran had 9 kids ending with my dad in 1945. So basically 8 kids before and throughout a war with a husband away in the navy. With one of the coldest winters on record, no car, supermarkets, washing machines, dishwashers.
She also had twins at the beginning of the war. I mean imagine already having 5 kids and then TWINS....
All of them did well and had good interesting lives so Gran did a fab job. Both grandparents lived until late 80's so they were fit and healthy.

I'm on my knees with one and have many unhealthy habits that will probably see me off.

I will preface it by saying I appreciate I have one idea of how I like things for DC and that's how I would prefer DH does stuff. And when I say "parent properly" I feel like it's just my way I want him to do things. I am not blind to my own faults here..

So, for example, he will forget to change a nappy as he only thinks it's time for a nappy change if DC has done a poo.
He won't prepare anything particularly appetising for DC's meals and doesn't have an alternative food for DC to try if she won't eat what we've given.
If DC's clothes are wet, DH thinks it's ok, her clothes aren't that wet whereas I will change her.
DH doesn't always get DC's cues that she isn't enjoying a certain kind of play eg. not wanting to roughhouse alllll the time.
DH struggles to get DC to nap when she should and sleep at bedtime.

Mothers little helpers and cocaine in the Coca-Cola. Must have been wild back then.

@MillicentBystander2022 cocaine!???

DH and I both have large families and both suffered due to having loads of siblings, it wasn’t something we wanted for our family. It’s not just about emotionally coping but financially for us. We wanted to be able to afford nice holidays, paying for Uni without worrying, the children having hobbies, driving lessons and first cars, getting them on the housing market etc. Both of us came from really impoverished backgrounds and didn’t want that for our children. We wanted to give our children a really great start in life and we couldn’t have done that having a lot of children.

I wanted to be able to give our children attention and not live in the rabble that I lived in, no help with homework, constant chaos, sharing a bedroom with 4 other siblings, limited food, hand me down clothes and shoes for example. I wanted our children to have new shoes and clothes, experience life and have a better life than I did. DH wanted the children to choose their hobbies, have the privilege of having driving lessons paid for them and cars/insurance paid.

We had 3 children, it was a team effort between DH and I. Previous generations fell pregnant and had absolutely no thought to the future of their children in our experience. Our parents were the low end of working class though. We wanted to set a better example to our children.

How old are you? Recovery at 20 is immeasurably easier than recovery at 35.

34 :(

My dad is the youngest of 12 and there was a 30 year gap between him and the eldest. Definitely the older siblings did alot of childcare. I've got 1 and am way too knackered to ever consider a second 🤣

So, for example, he will forget to change a nappy as he only thinks it's time for a nappy change if DC has done a poo.
He won't prepare anything particularly appetising for DC's meals and doesn't have an alternative food for DC to try if she won't eat what we've given.
If DC's clothes are wet, DH thinks it's ok, her clothes aren't that wet whereas I will change her.
DH doesn't always get DC's cues that she isn't enjoying a certain kind of play eg. not wanting to roughhouse alllll the time.
DH struggles to get DC to nap when she should and sleep at bedtime.

You have a shit DH. Not all men are like this.

So many years back by that stage many mums would have a ~16 year old child (along with other teens) to help as the recovery was getting harder after having the last few children.

My mum had four children, but she stayed at home. I had less but I still don't really have a career even though they're older now. I think I could have managed university 10 years ago, if I knew then how precious my youth was, and I wish I did it

I was born in the 70s and one of 8 children from a farming family. DM stopped working outside of the home on the eve of her wedding day and never went back. Her life was literally the farm and DC, even then I'd say I was mostly raised by a sister who was only eight years older than me.
We lived in the arse-end of nowhere so there were no extracurricular activities. We were all 'working' around the farm not long after being able to walk. My cousins envied our huge slightly chaotic household with horses, loads of animals and thr countryside. I envied their pretty dresses, dolls and ballet lessons. Rather tellingly (apart from myself with 3 DC), every other sibling has an only child.

1. Mothers were younger generally
2. They didn't have to be both the main breadwinner and the one doing 80%of shit at home
3. Less focus on happiness and development of the kids, less blame on the mothers if the kids didn't turn out perfect.
4. More wider family help

I am an ambitious woman trying to have it all and now I'm pregnant, I'm like WTF. I'm too unwell to work 60 hours a week yet the mortgage depends on me taking zero sick days. I have to breastfeed but also go back to the office at 20 weeks as that's all I get for mat leave here. It makes no sense. I resent my DH like I never thought I could before. He makes less than 1/3 of what I make and he does zero gestation obviously. His body will be unscathed and he's currently training for a marathon. Man is living the fucking dream.

Mums didn’t spend hours playing with their toddlers.
the kids did chores regularly, dressed themselves and the younger ones. Less toys is less tidying, and they played outside a lot. Dinner was one of 5-10 meals with limited variety and no one spent hours dreaming up new meals. The 6yo sets the table, the 8yo washes the dishes , the 10 does the rest of the clean up while mum baths the little ones.

Pretty much sums up my 1960's childhood😂

Would add that we either walked or rode our bikes to any after school or weekend activity; completely unheard of for parents to chauffeur their kids anywhere.