To wonder how mums of yore did it

[Peonii]

I just read on another thread that "you should only have as many children as you can cope with on your own" and "three kids is already too many for most people to handle".I feel like these are relatively new ideas as there were bigger families in previous generations. I only have one DC (14 months old)and with that limited experience I totally get those statements. I am in wonder at how mums juggle having babies, recovery, weight loss, back to work, emotional transitions, career progression, another baby, rinse and repeat. Before DC I really wanted four children. But honestly WTF. How the fudge do women do it!? I would still love a big family but I am terrified for a) my body (it's still healing 14 months later) b) my energy levels c)the lack of time I have for things that aren't family related eg. exercise or hobbies.

How do women do it? Men could never. I have never been particularly the "down with men" type but having a baby has completely changed my perception of what a successful man and woman are. But I'm waffling. I'm just curious how women have managed large families and careers and life. I am frazzled after just one.

60s childhood. My mum worked, part time to full time, but this was relatively unusual for wives at that time, indeed it was frowned on.

I cooked tea for myself and little brother from around age 10. I may even have been younger . It was normal for us to be left unsupervised at home from coming home from school, until around 7.30pm. I often made chips for tea using a deep fat fryer.

Far fewer activities after school. We played out a lot. Went next door or up the road on our own to see our friends from age 5. That’s something I never see where I live now, children going up and down the road without an adult. Even though there are lots of similar aged children in the street. I went alone for bike rides from about 11.

I walked to and from school alone from age 7 with another child aged 7. This involved crossing 2 busy roads.

My parents were unusual in that they actually played with us.

There was far less choice about food, the expectation was that our mum would make a meal and you would eat it. We were allowed some individual preferences but not that many.

Cleanliness and personal hygiene standards were lower - not dire, but I don’t remember children getting a daily bath or clean clothes every day.

I think there was far less focus on minimising risk, and far less emphasis on the child’s happiness minute by minute. Parenting didn’t have such a strong psychological focus and by and large parents weren’t expecting their child to be their best friend.

All this must have reduced mothers’ loads to some extent.

I can remember many instances of when I was at risk of something or other. I nearly electrocuted myself once, alone in the house, and skidded on my bike once on loose gravel and nearly went under a lorry. We just weren’t so focused on risk as people are now.

I honestly think it’s all nonsense. I’m always slightly baffled by people thinking having a large family is so “hard” or that you can’t be caring for them to the same standard as smaller families. Why? I know small families whose are brilliantly parented and ones that aren’t so great. Yes there are times that having more than one or two is tiring but I’m sure that you aren’t MORE tired than someone with two children and work, or something else. I do thing it can be quite difficult to be understood/appreciated but that’s because it’s fairly rare to have a large family now and smaller families are fairly vocal about what they perceive as the down sides.

Added to the list of things we have to do nowadays is staying or looking young.
You were allowed to age, you were physically active so you didn't need to fit in gym or yoga, you didn't need to "make time for your marriage" and fit in date nights etc.... basically expectations of your performance as a wife and mother were different.
I'm not suggesting it was easier then, not at all. It was probably gruelling. But you were focused on home, now our efforts are spread across a number of areas.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I have certainly picked my bunch of stuff to battle with and am often told by my family to just "leave him alone" as he's always so busy and hardworking with work - which is true. But he does try any time I flag something... I would however say I feel exactly like you re the injustice of it all.

I have three. Yes, it's hard but not impossibly so. As they get older, kids get easier. Mine are in school now and it's so much easier than when they're babies and toddlers. They play together and I'm starting to get time back for myself. I also work full time although worked part time whilst they were young.

Personally I wouldn't have it any other way as they get along well and will hopefully be good support for each other when they're older.

I think life has gotten a lot harder for many people. So many adults are on antidepressants, cash strapped, stressed and anxious. I don't know why, although I have a strong feeling the conservatives cut backs in public services plays a big part in it. Life feels bleak for many and, because of this, they struggle with mental health and then parenthood gets a lot tougher. It's hard to look after others if you're not feeling happy and positive yourself.

What are you still healing from physically 14 months post partum? Are you seeking treatment?

While some people think parents (or society) is too child-centric now or that life revolves around children rather than them fitting in, I definitely think there are advantages to being more involved.
DH and one of his siblings are dyslexic but in the late 60s/70s this wasn't picked up, either by school or family.
After another family member had an ASd diagnosis, it was widely accepted within the family that one of the siblings was probably autistic too, and I have suspected for probably a decade, that DH is ND, although not diagnosed.

They came from a fairly hands off/free range type of parenting because I think that was more normal, then. But they were labelled as slow or lazy, or troublemakers at school because ND wasn't really recognised by society as a whole, and in turn their parents wouldn't be aware

Parenting was different. Your kids needed to be fed, clean and do as they were bloody well told. Which makes sense if there are going to be numerous kids.

My gran's husband died when her 7 kids were between 20 and 5. She told them that they, especially the boys, would have to be damn near perfect,because as a single mum, she'd be judged for them. The older girls helped with the house while she was at work. School wasn't seen as overly important, because you left school at 15 and did what you could.

On the other hand, a great grandmother of mine ended up having to look after numerous siblings when her mother up and left, so I don't think women did cope.

I remember earwigging on conversations my mum had in the 80s, where women had had 'nervous breakdown' and had to go to the hospital.

I think that today, we read more about child rearing (often contradictory) and worry perhaps too much. Juggling home/kids has always been a challenge. But I look at my life and it's still better than my predecessors.
I work ft. Mum didn't but was trapped in drudgery and shit jobs.
I have time for hobbies and nights out. Mum's hobby was sewing- which was also practical. My hobbies are useless but fun.
I've brought my kids up the way I was brought up, but a bit less authoritarian. They help out round the house more than I was expected to.
I've always been slim, so didn't worry about getting my figure back. I suspect my mum ate less than she should.

It’s interesting about hobbies/clubs/classes for the kids and the expectation of these on modern families (mothers in particular?).

I was talking to my Mum about trying to get my 10yo DD interested in taking piano lessons- I took piano when I was a kid and my Mum created that opportunity for me- buying a keyboard, paying for the lessons, driving me to the lessons, making me practice etc. My DD isn’t particularly interested in taking lessons and I was even saying to Mum that I was thinking of offering to pay her (eg £1 a week) to try the lessons!!

Then my mum said that when she was a child (1950s) if she wanted to do something extra-curricular like that, it was just down to her. It wouldn’t have occurred to her that her parents would’ve even got involved in arranging anything, if she wanted to go to a club or something.

Also similarly with homework, reading books etc. So many parents now practically do their child’s homework for them, get them tutors. Mum told of the time she wanted to be named as class prefect- she had to write a speech and so on, she couldn’t remember her parents being involved or even aware at all. If my DD came home now saying there was a vote for class prefect, I would be spending time with her, writing the speech with her, listening to her practice aloud, wishing her luck, congratulating or commiserating with her.

Its swings and roundabouts with this really because the modern parents feel that they’re giving their child more- more opportunities, more support, by taking them to classes and getting them a tutor. However, there’s an element of taking a horse to water there and the older generation who were forced to do it for themselves may have more self motivation, independent skills, work ethic.

Me and my friends (80s kids) were mostly dragged up on a diet of chicken nuggets and benign neglect. I look back and think it must have been easier for my mum than it is for me now, as she didn’t actually do anything specifically for me. I was out roaming the streets and playgrounds till all hours, dinners were crap from the freezer. I was never supported to do well in school, to aim for anything, never taken to the dentist or told about periods or sex or relationships. This was the case for 90% of my friends and we’ve all gone through mental health issues, abusive relationships, health issues etc etc and had to drag ourselves up and over the lack of education and help.

One thing we always circle back to is that we were palmed off on relatives a lot as little kids, shout out to the nans! but our parents don’t help us much with our kids at all. I don’t know, maybe my community was just full of shit parents, or the 80s, or they were going through their own crises. Between my friends parents and my parents there was alcoholism, abuse, nervous breakdowns (remember that term?), being left for weekends and more, neglect and worse. If the back in the day stories are true, my Nan did more as a mum in the 50s than my own mum in the 70s/80s.

I have 3 under 6. I don’t work, I don’t have my hair or nails done, don’t go to the gym, don’t really do much for myself at all. It is all about the children to keep the ball rolling. That isn’t for everyone & I definitely get down about it at times. But I was an only child and am still sad at 32 that I don’t have siblings so it was important to me.

I think you just have to lower your expectations with each one. I don’t regret my decision but I would never have anymore.

I think life was just much, much tougher. My great grandma had 11 kids. I've seen photos of her and she looked ancient, even in her 40s.
I think it's quite a modern thing that we expect so much from life - we expect life to be enjoyable, fun, to be happy and fulfilled, to have a good career, to have leisure time, to have perfect relationships, to have holidays, nice houses etc.
For my great grandma's generation life was tough and gruelling. You didn't question it. You just got on with it. Then you died.
I think life is so much better now.

Oh shit I am 38 this year and expecting our 2nd 🫣

Kids played and stayed out all afternoon until it was time to eat.
Standards have changed and what was ok last century, would be deemed as negligence now.

Added to the list of things we have to do nowadays is staying or looking young.
You were allowed to age, you were physically active so you didn't need to fit in gym or yoga, you didn't need to "make time for your marriage" and fit in date nights etc.... basically expectations of your performance as a wife and mother were different.

We need to resist that pressure. Yes I know it's ultimately caused by the patriarchy and the fact that women are still primarily regarded as decorative, but so many women collude in promoting these beauty ideals and shame women who don't live up to them. I do yoga because I enjoy it and because it stops my joints from aching after long walks (which I also do because I enjoy them) and it helps cure my plantar fasciitis.

But I'm lucky to have always been able to take time to do those things, even when my dc were tiny, because I'm not married to a man who thinks chilcare and housework are my hobbies. Date nights are supposed to be enjoyable. My parents socialised loads when I was a child - way, way more than we do.

@Peonii it’s genuinely good to hear someone relate or agree.

it hard to talk about to people you know/ IRL
I sometimes feel I am going slowly mad… like how are all these women quietly going along with it?
is it me? Am I doing it wrong?

i don’t know what to do other than fight with him or/and cry about it.

Different times and a very different world!

more family support and close by
less expectations - self imposed and worldly - for most women to maintain a high flying career outside the home, low stress and jobs around the family were more normal when women worked

older siblings and cousins and friends kids all played together
not too many distractions like SM, gadgets, online world

I think the point of threads like this is to show that so many people are just acting that everything is great and they are handling life well! Majority probably feel exactly the same as you and so many of us which is that life is exhausting and can be shit all of the times, for women trying to have and do it all!

we need to stop and try to enjoy what we have while we have it and can enjoy some of it

I remember hearing somebody talk about ‘the beautiful ordinary’ and learning how to find pleasure in the simple things every day. I remember thinking it sounded lovely, but just like another thing I have to learn to do. 🤣🤣

My great grandma had 12 children - I dont know how her pelvic floor did it!!
In terms of childcare my grandma told me the babies slept in drawers from chest of drawers, they topped and tailed in a double bed.
Oldest went into service at 14 so basically left home.
Older siblings looked after younger siblings, extended family all lived within a few minutes walk or even next door, neighbours looked out for each other's kids.
Kids were left a lot to own devices, were not ferried to activities parties etc, walked to and from school by themselves no homework, played out in fields /on street and had chores at home.
Being a parent was a noun like being sister brother not a verb or an action you did. Less was expected of parents.

My gran, born prematurely into a farming family at the beginning of the 1900’s, was considered very fragile and needed extra care. As a toddler she was tied to a kitchen table leg for long periods and left to play. She remembered her mum having to just get on with the farm work (no choice) and couldn't spend time keeping her safe. Her older siblings were out shoving sheep and cows around at 4 or 5 years old and my little gran was safer on a rope in the kitchen.

Different standards.

There were fewer expectations for both quality of mothering, and child outcomes.
No one batted an eye about kids of all ages, from toddlers to teens being outside playing from dawn to dusk, all year round. There was an expectation that the older ones would watch out for the younger ones, and they'd generally get on with it. Parents didn't have that expectation of providing entertainment to their children all day long.

Nowadays, there's all these clubs and activities parents feel obliged to get their kids involved with, with all the associated ferrying around and paying for. There was none of that back then. Maybe a kid did cubs or brownies every Tuesday evening or maybe took their musical instrument to the local Saturday music school, but that was it.

Frankly, not that many generations ago, if a parent got their child successfully to adulthood, they took that as the only "win" they needed.

You've literally summed up my childhood, and my kids', to some extent.

My mum came to the UK in the 60s, from an African country. From a young age we were expected to help with household chores - washing dishes, making our beds, vacuuming, popping off to the corner shop to get bread, etc. We still had time to go to clubs - gymnastics, majorettes & Brownies/Girl Guides, but they were all literally five minutes down the road, so there was no expectation of your parent being a taxi driver.

My kids are aged 32, 23 & 17, and there's a marked difference in the amount of extra-curricular activities that were available to my oldest in contrast to the youngest. I've definitely spent more time ferrying the youngest around than I did the oldest.

They've had a slightly more relaxed upbringing, but they were still expected to do chores. They all started doing their own laundry once they went to secondary school, and all learned to cook basic meals. I would have made them do their own ironing too, but my husband enjoyed settling in on a Sunday afternoon, in front of the ironing board, with a glass of wine and Murder She Wrote on the TV 😀

Born in the 60s and brought up in London as an only child , It was routine for friends /classmates to have a family of 6 children! This was when babies were left to cry in the garden,smacked if naughty ,and left outside the pub! Now we have a much more enlightened and kinder attitude .WC women not expected to work / have any hobbies ,Often needs must and they worked PT in factories /cleaning or bar work . It was a far cry from today and years of campaigning for womens rights . 1 or 2 children is the norm now

I'm in my 50s. In my experience of large families in the past, mothers did very little else but parent and work. So minimal socialising other than in family groups, no gym or out of the house hobbies, much less time on 'self care'. Then on the other side, less active involvement with children, not feeling the need to occupy and entertain them all the time, play with them or take them on days out, basically just allowing them to be there. Enlisting the help of older children with younger ones, and children having chores.

In the really big families the older kids look(ed) after the younger ones. And miss(ed) out on a lot of their childhood by becoming parents at a very young age.

Plus you would have expected multiple children to not make it to adulthood.

And there's an element of people coping with things because they have to. Doesn't mean they enjoy it. Lots of sacrifices of literally everything.

This is why I decided not to have any at all, because I spent a lot of time looking into it and realised that for me personally, it would make me physically and mentally miserable and there's no way I could be a good parent in that situation.

How do women do it? Men could never

Of course they can

Some chose not to. And
Some women chose to facilitate it