To wonder how mums of yore did it

[Peonii]

I just read on another thread that "you should only have as many children as you can cope with on your own" and "three kids is already too many for most people to handle".I feel like these are relatively new ideas as there were bigger families in previous generations. I only have one DC (14 months old)and with that limited experience I totally get those statements. I am in wonder at how mums juggle having babies, recovery, weight loss, back to work, emotional transitions, career progression, another baby, rinse and repeat. Before DC I really wanted four children. But honestly WTF. How the fudge do women do it!? I would still love a big family but I am terrified for a) my body (it's still healing 14 months later) b) my energy levels c)the lack of time I have for things that aren't family related eg. exercise or hobbies.

How do women do it? Men could never. I have never been particularly the "down with men" type but having a baby has completely changed my perception of what a successful man and woman are. But I'm waffling. I'm just curious how women have managed large families and careers and life. I am frazzled after just one.

Sadly they died earlier. Speaking to my late grandparents they had little or no time for themselves, hobbies, personal achievements. They sacrificed everything. I remember finding out after one grandmother passed that she had one a place to university to study law.

But her mother felt it would create a selfish mother.😔. It explains how excited she was to always engage with our studies and travels.

My youngest is ten I would advise your DH he isn't meeting the threshold of parenting and his game needs to step up quickly.

I have four DC aged 17, 14, 8 and 6. They are fairly spaced out in age. I don't work so have time to dedicate to them if they need help with exam revision. I study part time when they are in school. Only just started last year, so I waited until youngest was settled well into primary school before taking the leap.

I love it most of the time but do get occasional days it gets overwhelming. Not necessarily linked to quantity of DC but of life stresses in general IMO.

Mine was a 70s childhood. I did a few activities but walked myself to them once I was 9/10. I remembered Dad walking me to ballet when younger , and he took us swimming on Sunday mornings and taught us to swim - that was fitted in before church. Mum had a lie in on Sundays.

We played out on the street/local play park - no parents involved.

Mum worked part time for most of my childhood as did my MIL, but many of my friends’ mums were SAHMs. We had no family living nearby but usually had a week staying with DGPs in the summer without DPs.

Mum’s main hobby was knitting - mostly our jumpers. She also did church activities like choir, as did I.

Life was just much simpler then - but many of my friends, the vast majority, only had one sibling. There were very few large families. Four DC was almost unheard of. And my DPs born in the 40s were one of 2/3. It’s my DHPs’ generation born in the 1900s/1910s where there were 5 kids.

Mothers often lived near their own mother and other relatives so there was always someone to take a child for an afternoon, or even to have a child live with grandparents.

As already said older siblings were expected to chip in. My nana was 19 when her brother was born (and yes it was her brother) and did a lot of the childcare as her own mother was worn out.

And not all mothers did cope, it was not uncommon for children to be tied to a table leg to keep them out of the way.

Go back to Victorian times and children were working from very young.

Mum didn’t drive and walked miles to take us and collect us from school. We walked everywhere or got the bus. Played out all the time, Tv was limited to after school for an hour.

My late paternal GF was one of 10 apparently,he just had 2, late F and sister. He lived till 98, hard physical work, plumbing heating, even built his own bungalow,all himself. I saw recently on here posters think you're mentally and physically done in by the age of 60! I was an only child born 1950,my late DM didn't drive,we lived in a rural village,my GF didn't drive. The only people who had cars and phones were the Dr and midwife. I wanted 6 kids,had 4,2 miscarriages. My DM always worked, I had ballet lessons. I always worked,spaced my DKs as I could afford them. Maternity leave was 6 weeks after birth. I didn't have any family help. We never managed to buy property on one wage. In the early 80s, the mortgage rate went from 12 to 16% in the space of 18 months. I had 4 jobs. I did nursing training in 1972 . I didn't drive,lived outside a village, bicycle,seat for youngest. We started out in 3 rooms,then lived in a caravan... not a fancy park home. I mostly worked nights,so I was around for the kids,if they were sick never missed a sports day or assembly. Was 41 when I had my last (second marriage) a year later first grandchild was born,I have done childcare for 4 of my grandchildren, while working ft nights, when my DD was 9,my DF was terminally ill,he lived 40 miles away,i went and cared for him after a night shift while his wife (DM died 1988) went to look after her mother who was late 90s. We had a big garden,a lot of animals, including chicken. I planned like clockwork. I didn't go to bed after a night shift till my DD went to school, I never got sick,it was a family standing joke. Never caught coughs, colds,winter vomiting virus. And no, I didn't have a lot of help,DH 50s husband,stuff was womens work, same as my DF, he does pretty much everything I do now he's retired.

My has our twins solo all the time and manages a shedload of housework and decorating/DIY on top of working full time. He does school runs, gets up with them most mornings, makes their meals, plays endlessly with them, reads with them, baths up, put them to bed. For housework, I do the cooking and cleaning kitchen and bathrooms and he does laundry, dishes, bins, hoovering.

Many mothers in the past didn’t cope very well. Lots of neglect, alcoholism, relatives/neighbours having to step in and help out.
Also expectations were so much lower - loads of children never went near a dentist or an optician for example. Parents didn’t ferry their kids around to multiple after-school activities, sports, music lessons etc etc. Doing well at school and going to university wasn’t the expectation it is for many now and quitting school at 16 and getting an unskilled job was normal. Much, much less pressure for parents generally. All you were expected to do was provide shelter, food and clothes.

How far back are we talking. Certainly in the 80s when my parents had me, one income could sustain a house. There wasn’t so much pressure on entertaining your dc all the time, eg we were out playing, left alone etc. We did extracurriculars growing up. I didn’t know any parents who went to gyms, often you see in here mums who exercise twice a day and work f/t. My parents solcialised with friends/did a hobby 1-2 times a week. There wasn’t the same pressure.

Your DH's level of parenting would be absolutely fine, normal and expected of a mum in the 70s. Children and their needs were not the centre of the household and plans did not revolve around them. It is easier to parent if it is seen as completely normal and OK to leave your kids in the car while you have a drink in a pub - giving them a bag of crisps and a coke so they think it is a huge treat. My parents did this and this was absolutely mainstream, they'd go next door to a neighbour's house for a drink after we were asleep at night. At the weekend we would go out all day and just come back for food - older children were responsible for the younger ones. It was a different attitude to parenting which meant it took up a lot less time, effort and headspace for the parents.

I wouldn't say I emulated it with my kids, but I was aware of it - I didn't pack their schedules and it was fine for them to be bored at the weekend and have to find something to amuse themselves. But I was lucky my childrearing sneaked in under the wire before screens became ubiquitious.

I was born in the very late 70s, one of three.

We grew up on a farm that my parents both worked long hours on. We were basically feral, running out around the farm and village during the day.

As we got older (ie from 6 or 7) we were expected to pull our weight on the farm and around the house - cleaning, tidying, gardening, cooking.

My parents had a lot of informal childcare arrangments with family and friends, often we were just left with an elderly neighbour the afternoon. Once my older brother was a teen we were left alone.

So people coped by making their kids contribute to the household and not being so uptight.

In my grandparents day (all from large familes - eg 10 plus kids) the older ones basically brought up the younger ones and cbildren were expected to be little adults from 10/11.

Times have definitely changed, there's far too much pressure on parents to provide, whether it be a nice house, extra curricular activities, holidays, mobile phones etc.
How a single parent would cope alone with three DC is beyond me.
Add into the mix the cost of childcare and you're basically fucked!
I'm not saying my childhood was better, it was a different time with different expectations.
I'm GenX, my DP's had 4 DC and both had to work full time.
We basically looked after ourselves, can't remember what happened when we were babies but as we got older we were responsible for each other, older DC would take and collect younger DC to school, I remember being taken to school when my eldest Dsis was about 7.
We stayed home alone until DM got back from work.
We stayed home alone during school holidays, we were responsible for cleaning and cooking.
We never asked for anything as we were very aware that money was an issue, everyone was in the same boat so we didn't feel deprived.
We had no extra curricular activities because the money just wasn't there.
Think, outside toilet, no central heating, coats thrown over the beds for extra warmth.
I certainly wouldn't like to raise a family today, I take my hat off to all those parents trying to make it work

I was born in 1971 and tbh my childhood wasn't wildly different from my dc's. DM and I both had postnatal anxiety after one of our babies, but aside from that, I don't think either of us found it very hard at all. The neglectful non-parenting is not something I recognise from my own childhood. Neither have I subscribed to the 'Must be a perfect parent' pressure described now. Tbh from my mum's descriptions of her childhood, I don't really think my grandmother experienced the difficulties people are describing either.

Like most women, my DM and GM did not work once they were married. I went part time when my dc were born.

I am in my seventies. I am one of seven children. My grandmothers had four children each ( both lost at least one child). Both my grandmothers and my grandfather worked. One of my grandfathers died when my father was twelve. They didn't have a choice, my grandmothers, whether or not to work. My Dad and Mum were both clever and passed for grammar school but both had to leave at fourteen and get jobs. My Dad had an apprenticeship, my mother had a variety of jobs, always very basic but as she said, it helped put bread on the table. She worked in a factory, the evening shift and then all day once the youngest went to school. When she was in her forties, she did English and Maths 'o' levels at evening class to help her get an office job. My Dad worked until he was seventy, my Mum until she was sixty five, then she did childcare. All us kids went to university.
I had four years off after having children then went back as a teacher. One of the mums from school looked after my kids after school until I got there. I worked full time until sixty five then part time once grandchildren appeared.
I do four full days a week of childcare. I once admitted I found it hard on MN and got shot down by mothers anxious to tell me that a grandmother has it so easy, we get nights off supposedly. I have both sets over night one day a week.
I think most mothers cope. I think some Mothers on MN think that if everyone tells them life is hard then it must be and they manifest anxiety and depression. My grandmothers had no time to be ill until they died.I think tv appeared in the decade before they died and they both loved it. A reason to sit down in the evening.
Most mothers, animal as well as human, are programmed to care for their children whatever it takes. My grandmothers literally worked until they died. The idea of 'retirement' didn't exist on their radar. They both, along with most mothers then, were happy if their children were ok and making their way. And the children mostly did ok.
Nobody back then, and both sides of my family were proper working class, would have understood the idea that work is optional. So many mothers on here ( but perhaps it's just an MN thing) think work is a choice. They are too posh or needy to pull their weight being nurses, doctors, carers, teachers etc. My grandmothers would be flummoxed by their life styles.

This

Much less investment per child, I suspect. And children expected to contribute a lot more.

They chucked the kids out of the house to play at a much younger age. Older siblings, especially girls, were expected to look after the younger ones and help around the house.

My grandmother worked away during the week for a couple of years when her children were young and the oldest daughter (my aunt) was expected to do the cooking and cleaning and get herself and her younger siblings dressed and to school on time, then pick them up, bring them home, look after them and make dinner in time for my grandfather coming home. A lot of responsibility for a then 14 year old. The neighbours helped a lot, though.

There are lots of people on MN with larger families (including me). I don’t recognise quite a lot of the descriptions of how it was or is. Of course it takes more to look after more but it’s not insurmountable and the major difference now is that people CHOOSE to have larger families if they want them on the whole.
So if you live on one income you adjust your spending to that, your older children don’t have to care for their younger siblings, you can have time to play with your children …. I really don’t see its any more work than anything else.

I think it used be: kids expected to slot into my life

Now it's: my life revolves around kids

I personally think the first one is better for everyone.

I disagree to some extent. I think far too much was expected of older children within families, especially girls.

But that's based on my own family experiences. It seems to have been a common thing in previous generations of our family for the oldest girl to spend a lot of time helping in the house and caring for the other children. And I can think of one cousin in our generation who, although not exploited quite so overtly, was 'leant on' a lot by her parents. Whenever we visited, for example, she would be put in charge of babysitting us and looking after us while the adults went out.

No-one is talking about smacking and corporal punishment. I agree with expectation and a normal childhood then would be considered neglectful now. However, you'd get older women sitting out in their path and they'd keep an eye on us. You feared being told off to your parents. Schools, other adults could threatened (and hit you) and it would be thought of as your fault. My generation sat nicely on buses etc because it was smacked legs if we didn't. I had my first in the 80's and was always being told to smack, even for a normal tantrum. My childcare while my mother worked was me walking to a friends house and her teen sister minding a gang of us. As said children were clothed and fed and sometimes neighbours/wider family had to step in on those. Because of a lack of contraception, bad parenting wasn't judged.

I have 4, and DH not around much due to work.
It’s not that hard tbh. Weight loss: well you don’t need extra time for that.I just ate loads less for a bit and lost weight. C section recovery happened in time. Hobbies..No I don’t have time for them, but I try and do fun stuff with my dc in the holidays that I also get something out of - hiking, surfing, art galleries, baking. Seeing friends - during the day with other mums of toddlers, and weekend evenings.

I don’t need to work which makes life a lot easier!!

I make life easier where I can. I don’t make amazing meals for the kids, just the basic pasta, veg etc and I have a cleaner. They play alot together without me. But I do take them to lots of activities etc all the time and I sit with them and make sure homework is good.

It’s a life very much saturated with children and I don’t have time for myself but it’s not really that hard.I think not working is the main thing making it easier.

Im in awe of my (late) mother. Born in 1920s, she went to university (as did her older sisters, one became a doctor, one a lawyer) and had a career in social work. She travelled the world. At 35 she married and had three kids. She worked part time and we had an au pair. Remember back then no dishwashers and there were cloth nappies. I hope she had a washing machine which became more common in the 1950s. My father worked long hours (doctor) and did minimal around the house. At one point he was ill and spent nine months in hospital- goodness knows how she managed to even feed us then. She had some family (all the women worked) but they also had children and none lived in London.
No matter how you look at it, I believe they had it tougher. Maybe there was no 'expectation' that the majority of women would work, and one salary went further, but the sheer drudgery of it must have been extremely burdensome and stifling. Even if older kids helped out, that still requires the mother to do it all for several years. And desire to pursue one's own interests and career - that's not something that just sprung up in the 1970s! Look at Jane Austen for goodness sakes - women were lamenting their lot back then and I'm sure for centuries before.

Four children is a lot, emotionally, practically and financial. I have 3 and putting them all through nursery, Afterschool clubs and then University has cost a small fortune. I only had 3 as I had my eldest when I was a teenager, and so he was 11 when I had DS2 and I wanted a sibling close in age for DS2 so had DD. I’d have only had 2 children if I hadn’t have had an older child. I have a career too, and have kept going with that and a chronic illness whilst raising them all. Youngest is 16 now, 2 more years to go!

It was a different generation wasn't it.

This is a really interesting topic. My gran used to be quite baffled by all the things I did for mine, I'm the youngest of lots of cousins and she even noticed a difference within the generation. She had 4 so not loads but basically after the baby stage they were pretty much free range and went out to play coming back for meals and entertaining each other (admittedly it was a very safe rural area). There were no baby groups, health visitors etc back then. She didn't go back to work until they were a bit older and it was just part time cleaning locally so the kids could just come and find her if they needed something.

My mum had us in the 80s and took a career break for a few years. She says she went to a local church playgroup, made some friends and they would take turns going to each others houses for coffee and biscuits while the kids played. There were much lower expectations even then.