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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder how mums of yore did it

185 replies

Peonii · 31/05/2024 00:17

I just read on another thread that "you should only have as many children as you can cope with on your own" and "three kids is already too many for most people to handle".I feel like these are relatively new ideas as there were bigger families in previous generations. I only have one DC (14 months old)and with that limited experience I totally get those statements. I am in wonder at how mums juggle having babies, recovery, weight loss, back to work, emotional transitions, career progression, another baby, rinse and repeat. Before DC I really wanted four children. But honestly WTF. How the fudge do women do it!? I would still love a big family but I am terrified for a) my body (it's still healing 14 months later) b) my energy levels c)the lack of time I have for things that aren't family related eg. exercise or hobbies.

How do women do it? Men could never. I have never been particularly the "down with men" type but having a baby has completely changed my perception of what a successful man and woman are. But I'm waffling. I'm just curious how women have managed large families and careers and life. I am frazzled after just one.

OP posts:
Investinmyself · 31/05/2024 12:35

Standards were different.
I think what you are describing as differences between you and dh your dh’s ‘good enough’ type approach would have been more in line with the past.
Food was food. One meal for everyone. Eat it or go hungry. The concept of making a separate appetising meal for toddler and a back up if they don’t fancy it wouldn’t have been on my radar let alone my grandma’s.
Babies napped. Put outside in pram. Walk away.
Nappies. You wouldn’t be rushing to change if you had to wash terry nappies. Plus the concept was toddlers should be uncomfortable as they will be keen to toilet train to be clean and dry. Holding over potty to poo was done.
At 34 you’d have older teens and children to help.

AStepAtaTime · 31/05/2024 12:45

Women dedicated themselves purely to birthing/raising children and running the house. There was no career or life outside of being a mum and a housewife. And as everyone knows, trying to be a mum, run a house and hold down a job/career is very stressful. It's too much really.

RishiFinallyDidTheRightThing · 31/05/2024 12:46

I think women of earlier generations were less inclined to burden themselves and each other with unrealistic expectations.

Invent · 31/05/2024 12:55

I don't think " standards" is the right way to think about it though. You still had recognisably good and bad parents even if it all seems very lax parenting now.

Also whilst children dud look after each other the older kids would be out of the home much earlier. My aunties had left home to become nurses or get married by the time they were 18 or 19.

The big change in the last 80 years ( so that's my parent's generation) is just how much more we have. Kids dying of malnutrition, no shoes or decent clothes was not uncommon whereas in my head that's Victorian Britian.

Despite 9 kids and having no family money my grandparents started their own little business. My grandad left the navy after the war and they had enough money to buy a house, send my dad to private school and to do several transatlantic cruises in their later years. I can't imagine very many starting out with nothing families, could have 9 kids and be able to get their standard of living these days.

JamSandle · 31/05/2024 13:00

Older siblings likely helped raise up younger ones too.

BigAnne · 31/05/2024 13:00

CulturalNomad · 31/05/2024 00:57

Mums didn’t spend hours playing with their toddlers.
the kids did chores regularly, dressed themselves and the younger ones. Less toys is less tidying, and they played outside a lot. Dinner was one of 5-10 meals with limited variety and no one spent hours dreaming up new meals. The 6yo sets the table, the 8yo washes the dishes , the 10 does the rest of the clean up while mum baths the little ones.

Pretty much sums up my 1960's childhood😂

Would add that we either walked or rode our bikes to any after school or weekend activity; completely unheard of for parents to chauffeur their kids anywhere.

I was born in the late 50's. Walked to school with other kids from a very young age. Had household chores. Lighting the fire, peeling veg, going to the shops, washing dishes etc. I was left at home supervising younger siblings. All of this was pretty standard. However looking back there was a fair amount of what would now be deemed as neglect.

Madrid21 · 31/05/2024 13:12

I often wonder this too, my paternal great grandfather died young and left a widow and 7 children, there was a 15 year age gap between the eldest and the youngest! My grandfather (the eldest) was at university when his father died and had to take a break for a couple of years to work and support his family, it must've been so tough for them! We've stopped after 2 and that's enough for us, I can't imagine 7!

Investinmyself · 31/05/2024 13:25

By standards I mean what was seen as acceptable by majority.
So eg putting baby in pram alone in garden to nap (and ignoring crying) was the norm.
Eat it or go hungry was very much norm.
Weekly bathing was norm.

MabelMaybe · 31/05/2024 13:25

@Cyclebabble I'm sorry that was your experience. 😢You and your mum deserved better than that.

Timetoexplore · 31/05/2024 13:27

I think it’s normal to do work around the house and am not sure after school activities are necessarily better for children. Why is “going to cooking club” better than making something for your family?

Ejvd · 31/05/2024 13:40

Peonii · 31/05/2024 00:59

Do you really think so?

He does most of the household chores but he is almost like an alien meeting a baby and I feel like with time he will learn. He isn't the most maternal or not the highest EQ - I am sure he is a little on the spectrum. He is already a lot better than what he was like when DC was very young and he is willing to try things differently to improve etc

Ugh. Can't stand the man-bashing on this thread. Don't listen to these little miss perfects bashing your poor DH please. The faults you are describing are so minor!!! And its got nothing to do with him being male either.

If forgetting to change nappies is a constant (not occasional) problem for him, there are workarounds to try. The DC isn't going to get ill or care themselves about a bit of water here and there. I suspect youre making a bigger deal out of that than it needs to be. As for the food - some of us offer only 1 food choice as a matter of principle. Etc.

The not understanding her cues needs to be worked on though. Buy some consent books for babies/toddlers for them to read together.

hangingonfordearlife1 · 31/05/2024 13:41

my mother in law had 9. grandmother had 9 and my great grandmother had 16 children. from what i've been told the older kids were looking after the younger kids. there were also grandparents, aunts, neighbours that were around constantly. kids were out in the streets playing a lot.

MrsRobert · 31/05/2024 13:46

I read about woman losing their village but none of my grandmothers and great grandmothers helped other women in their family with childcare. They were too busy looking after the men.

The younger mums in my extended family have anxiety inducing interference from grandmothers who themselves were very hands off in the 70s and 80s. There's an obsession with entertaining children and minimising any tiny risk.

Elleherd · 31/05/2024 14:00

Not from a background where planning life's standard. Had children horribly young, inherited step children from their father, and later partially from the wife after me, and then a surprise one just after getting the rest to adults.
We've shrunk and grown more than once. Max was eleven to take care of. Averages out as LP to seven most of the time for earlier batch.
Parenting expectations and expectations for women, from without and within have really, really, changed over time. Some for the better, some for worse.

My childhood was problematic, not all of us survived, my siblings bar one got shipped to AUS, and as a girlhad looked after my dying mother, then transitioned into motherhood all while still well underage, with 'ideas well above my station' over my kids and step kids, for the era and my place in society.

Legal guardian transitioned into Husband. His role was head of household, to be looked after when not in the pub or snooker hall, or Mil's. Stopped working, because he'd "got himself a little wifey to take care of things." Was seen as smart and successful locally. Don't know what else he did, but had methods of funding himself beyond what he took of me and family allowance. My role in life was domestic, step kids and kids futures expected to be pretty similar.

No white goods, they weren't around our childhood so why did I need them? Who did I think I was? Lazy mare! Later decided I should be bringing in a wage by now.
At first mainly p/t jobs where I could take younger ones with me. Wage packet handed over sealed, to be doled back some of it as housekeeping. Expected.
Littlelies got given things to play with, sung too, toddler I spy etc, with me while I worked, trying to keep them simultaneously entertained, step kids at school.

Childcare was local woman's front room with loads of cots full of crying babies. I'd dared to refuse it. Mil raged at my snobbishness. Exh ok as it saved costs.

Step kids expected to walk themselves to and from school, while I worked with small ones in tow, usually pregnant, activities for SC's was going to friends houses, while I was back home taking care of endless washing, cooking, cleaning, littlies, and whatever came back from schools, as best I could. But clean, fed, watered, not fighting, was tbh considered parenting. They did talk to me about problems, but seen as being close to them in age, and me shirking.

Exh unhappy I might meet men at work, so MIL got me on nights in a bakery where it was mainly women who'd report back to her. So now I'd have to feed everyone, clean up, sort school stuff, then take and settle all littlies at hers for the night, before going to now full time work. (some free bread and cakes though)
Collect in the morning, sort step kids out and and keep going with domestics, until he went out, when it was playpen and sleep for all of us. Life was basic for all of us and I was pregnant and struggling most of the time.

Why I couldn't look better was a frequent topic from his mum and him. The neighbors were talking... Of course my failures would cause him to 'stray.'

There absolutely was pressure over how you looked, including covering bruising.
To walk around making no attempt to cover it was inviting others to judge. Scream quietly, the neighbors will hear, was a thing.

I eventually did the unthinkable and after talking to my step kids, we ran away, and I raised them in squats often without things like hot water on tap etc.
I already did everything manually, so the main difference was creating hot water.

Every move (many) required huge amounts of scrubbing out and making OK.
I was a bit obsessional about hygiene and standards, I never wanted them to be or feel like I had as a kid. TBH they were rather less bothered!

Washed, hair done daily, clean shirts and underwear daily, clean tights every two days generally, uniform skirts and trousers and ties sponged if needed but otherwise washed every weekend, along with bed linen.. Most I hand washed, but tried to get bedding into the launderette to dry in winter.
I shudder at some threads on here, but they'd shudder at me.

Our lives and relationships changed dramatically, and mainly for the better.
As a mum it was actually very tough going, but it just was life. But I was now free to focus on them and their development and future, as well as the basics.

I got them into schools, and library membership everywhere. I tried to present everything as an adventure, and generally it worked. I tried to protect them from many of the realities, always gone before eviction day, new place cleaned before they saw it, and little things like taking sunflowers they were growing, with us.
I didn't really know what I was doing, but I'd started to see parenting differently.

Never worried about keeping fit or dieting, life did all that. Stopped caring what I looked like as long as it was clean. Their lives and future had become the goal.

We found opportunities and they started to be able to do things outside school like swimming and acting. I took any work I could while they were in school, and in the evenings homework got done, quite a lot of activities and I did a lot of sewing, both domestic and piece work. Older ones often did a bit of my piece work to get cash for themselves. Weekends we did all sorts of stuff as a family depending on who had what going on, and what could be pulled together, but the endless mending even came to the beach with the picnic and sand stuff.

They grew up knowing what wasn't their problem to worry about and what was.
They had a fair few rules including family meals, but also some unusual freedoms. But they had to tell me where they were at all times, which was less permissive than many at the time. They were expected to do chores but looking after each other was when we were on the move only, and part of moving. Opening up opportunities to prevent crap cycles repeating was well embedded.

I was, probably still am on here, judged to high hell and back.
Expected to dump my step kids to get a council house and a crap mother to not prioritize 'your own'.
Expectations for me to date and 'find a man to take you on,' but apart from the logistics, I could see how that generally worked out... but considered failing the kids for not trying to provide a 'man in their life.'

The idea that I should have some sort of life of my own other than finding a partner, absolutely wasn't a pressure though. That was supposed to be after all your kids had grown up. (I unintentionally did and committed to another couple of decades of parenting, but it's another chapter, era, and expectations.)

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 31/05/2024 14:14

Wow @Elleherd - your experiences certainly put some things in perspective.

NannyGythaOgg · 31/05/2024 14:19

So, for example, he will forget to change a nappy as he only thinks it's time for a nappy change if DC has done a poo.
He won't prepare anything particularly appetising for DC's meals and doesn't have an alternative food for DC to try if she won't eat what we've given.
If DC's clothes are wet, DH thinks it's ok, her clothes aren't that wet whereas I will change her.
DH struggles to get DC to nap when she should and sleep at bedtime.

This has a lot to do with why parentling is harder. Wet nappies should definitely be changed but wet towelling nappies are uncomfortable and children rarely needed them during the day after about 2.

I'm 5th of 7 children. Mum coped with the first 4, in a 2 up 2 down without running water or an inside loo, and not much money. 6 of the 7 of us all got university degrees and are now (inluding property) millionaires. (Guess who is the odd one out?)
All well balanced people too. Lower expectations in terms of material things also meant less angst. Foodwise, you ate or you went without. Luckily, all were (and are) healthy, so no-one missed more than the odd meal.

Today's society, however well meaning, isn't making people or children happier.

AngryLikeHades · 31/05/2024 14:37

There are some interesting, very valid points on this thread that I'd never even thought of. Thanks for everyone contributing.

VickyEadieofThigh · 31/05/2024 14:41

Codlingmoths · 31/05/2024 00:24

They didn’t have out of home exercise routines and hobbies, little Dilan and Jacob didn’t do tennis scouts basketball and football and need driving there, or have birthday parties every other weekend, but also mums didn’t get to sit and watch tv in the evening; they cleaned and sewed. They worked hard all the time, and didn’t get much in the way of me time. Hobbies were sewing and mending. Mums didn’t spend hours playing with their toddlers.
the kids did chores regularly, dressed themselves and the younger ones. Less toys is less tidying, and they played outside a lot. Dinner was one of 5-10 meals with limited variety and no one spent hours dreaming up new meals. The 6yo sets the table, the 8yo washes the dishes , the 10 does the rest of the clean up while mum baths the little ones.

Indeed! My mum brought up 3 of us (born, 1955, 1958 - me, 1967) in a two-bedroom house with no running hot water, no bathroom (only an outside toilet) and the only source of heating coal fires. Coal miner husband whose parenting was extremely hands-off.

Mind, she had to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital with severe depression when I was 15...

RoseUnder · 31/05/2024 15:12

This has been an interesting thread, and food for thought as perhaps in some ways the pendulum has swung far enough in terms of child-led family life.

Things like the cost of living, but also the mental health crisis, may encourage parents to be firmer in terms of food (eat what's on your plate or go hungry!) or more likely to encourage independence and unstructured play, playing outside. And kids should definitely all pitch in with age-appropriate housework responsibilities from the earliest age, for their sake and ours. We don't want to raise little princesses and princes.

Other things though, thank god we have progressed from!

Okaaaay · 31/05/2024 15:29

Be present and parent children
Eat healthy
Exercise
Sleep
Socialise
Work
Transport (self to work, children to clubs, dog to vets)
Clean and maintain a home
Administer life and children’s life

The mums of yore didn’t - it’s as simple as. It’s a recent construct that it’s possible to do all of this. And of course it is not possible. We either have to split everything equally, buy support or don’t drop elements of it. On the face of it I have it ‘all’ - but I don’t sleep, exercise, clean my own house and I work 30 hours. My MH is always on a knife edge and I’m exhausted. I loved lockdown for the simplicity and to get away from all the ‘doing’.

CulturalNomad · 31/05/2024 16:10

On the whole myn1960's/70's childhood was a happy one. I definitely benefited from being the youngest (wasn't expected to help with childcare) and certainly never felt neglected. While my mother didn't spend her days playing with me or chauffeuring me to "activities", there was always time to chat while I " helped" with food prep (questionable😂) and every day ended with her supervising bath time and reading a bedtime story.

And motherhood hadn't yet become a competitive sport. My mother (by necessity) was focused on her own family and didn't know (or care) what the neighbor's kids were doing, how their grades were, etc. She wasn't constantly comparing herself to other mothers and generally people didn't talk (brag?) about their kids to the extent we do today.

Most mothers back then thought their kids were pretty average, and that wasn't viewed as a negative. Occasionally a kid was a talented athlete or got exceptionally good grades, but frankly that wasn't expected. Finish school, find a decent job...that's what your mother considered "success".

Now it seems that " average" is a pejorative and you're somehow lacking as a mother if your child isn't viewed as "exceptional". Just look at some of the posts on Mumsnet! " I'm so worried that other kids are jealous of my daughter's beauty" (the kid is 7😂). All the time and money spent schlepping kids to sporting activities, with lots of angst over the coach - and the other parents - not recognizing what a superstar is in their midst. And is the teacher not seeing how advanced little Oliver is? Better have a word.

Lots of things are better today but the pressure put on mothers probably isn't one of them.

VestaTilley · 31/05/2024 16:25

Middle class women had Nanny’s and working class women relied on the older children to look after the younger children. Further back working class women often still had to keep working, so DC were left to own devices or minded by older siblings or grandparents.

Parenting used to be (often) harsher and downright abusive. The rich barely saw their children as they went to boarding school or were with Nanny, and working class mothers often had little time for each child as they had a house to keep clean, no labour saving devices and meals to cook from scratch.

I suspect a lot of post natal depression went unnoticed and children were shouted at (or worse) a lot of the time. It was not a better time to be a child.

Ilovemyshed · 31/05/2024 16:30

Multi generational family support from GPs, Aunts, plus older siblings.

Kids left more to their own devices and less supervised.

Chypre · 31/05/2024 16:33

Standards back in the day were quite different... My gran routinely nominated older children (8 years was considered old and wise enough!) to look after the younger, and then scolded them if little ones were dirty/hungry/hurt... That's how. Meanwhile MN is debating if 12 year olds can be trusted to be left at home on their own for 2 hours.

sandorschicken · 31/05/2024 16:48

I don't think children were as 'babied' as they are now.

Kids, from a young age were outside, playing. They were not shepherded about to different clubs and hobbies. If they were bored, they were more able to entertain themselves.

Mum cooked a dinner and the children ate it or they didn't eat so she wasn't cooking a million different meals for 'fussy eaters'.

Marketing to children wasn't what it is now reducing the 'want want want' of todays world reducing the guilt parents felt if they couldn't or wouldn't provide unnecessary 'things'. No meant no.

As the children grew older they had chores to do and I don't mean 'keep your bedroom tidy', real proper chores and in many cases in days of old women stayed at home and men were out to work. Kids wore hand me downs and repaired clothing, they didn't keep up with fashion as they do now.

I would have had more children but infertility put a stop to that idea. I decided quickly that I was lucky that I got to work full time, luckily with no childcare to pay as GPs both looked after him and my money went towards affording my one child the ability to travel far and often, have the best things but I do think that although life was less 'glamorous' if you like for women, it was easier and simpler for them to raise multiple children because society made it so.