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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

MIL has bought a forward facing seat for 2 year old?

271 replies

Elisabeth3468 · 30/05/2024 18:09

I want to start by saying my son is 2 and is rear facing and has a specialised seat that rear faces up to 25kg. I plan on keeping him rear facing until he grows out of the weight/height limit which will probably be aged 5. I know how much safer it is.
My MIL knows how I feel about rear facing and I've provided her with all the facts and information but she doesn't seem to listen or want to know any better? That's fine because he never goes in her car anyway as she hasn't had a seat.
Until the other day she turns up and has bought him a forward facing only seat, brand new. It was off a colleague so highly discounted so she paid next to nothing but still it's forward facing and does rear face at all.
She keeps saying it's fine to forward face at his age etc. but she knows why I choose to rear face.
I feel really awkward now and I don't want my son to go in that seat.
I can't understand why she's done it. My mum has a car seat for my son and it's the same as ours and she's taken on board that the safest is to rear face.
I said to MIL I will buy a seat for her car if she wants one. She rarely looks after him anyway so confused why she's bought a seat.
AIBU?
What shall I say to her? I feel like she thinks I'm ungrateful.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
TheOneWithUnagi · 31/05/2024 19:23

Such strange reactions here - OP wants her child to rear face so that should really be the end of it.

I choose to rear face my children. We have the right seats to do so, the big one has never complained (little one is only 8 months anyway). She is nearly 4 but the height of a 5 year old and has PLENTY of room. She plays "I spy" with us and spots diggers out the windows so can see just fine. We chat in the car and she listens to music. She has never gotten car sick, and doesn't eat in the car. She naps in the car and never complains so must be comfortable. She will be rear facing as long as possible.

If you don't choose to rear face your children I am not judging you. We all make the right choices for our family. I have no idea what is going on with you - my second child might get massively car sick or hate rear facing for whatever reason and maybe then we would consider turning him sooner. For now I have no reason to do so, so I'm choosing not to.

IRL most of my friends RFed until about 3 years old. I know 2 others rear facing for longer like us.

BertieBotts · 31/05/2024 20:03

fungipie · 31/05/2024 15:37

Same here. So at what age does it all of a sudden become 'safe' to sit forward seated???

I know the not a sudden transition has been explained.

FWIW I don't like the terms "safe" vs "unsafe" for car seats because we're really only ever talking about comparative risk and probability. It doesn't actually make sense to call something unsafe because a lot of the time when people claim a certain car seat is "unsafe" they mean it is less safe than some preferred option that they would recommend. But for example, a 2.5 year old in a forward facing seat is certainly much safer than they would be using just a seatbelt, even if they would be safer still in a rear facing seat.

But in any case - it's hard to give an exact figure because unfortunately, the data on car seat effectiveness comes from actual children who are killed or seriously injured in car accidents, and you can only compare between groups of said children, since no two accidents are directly comparable, which is why you end up with "round number" milestones when in reality, this isn't likely to be representative, it's just how the groups are divided up. It's not like children wake up on their fourth birthday with a magically stronger neck than the day before. You also may want to be cautious of making judgements at the edges of a group. For example, one of the groups often used to compare data is raw figures comparing Germany to Sweden at a time where most parents in Germany would move to FF at around 9-10 months old. The category of 1-2 year olds has a very large, clear difference, whereas the category of 0-1 year olds looks pretty much the same. So you could say OK, whatever German parents are doing up to 12 months is fine/comparable to Sweden. But this is clearly not true, because it doesn't make sense that 9-12 month old babies are perfectly safe forward facing, and then at 12 months it becomes unsafe for them - it's more likely that across all accidents where 0-11 month old babies were killed or injured in Germany at the time the data was collected, only a small number of them were over 9 months old in the first place.

But it seems from the data/information we do have:

Forward facing seats do not provide adequate protection at all for babies under a year of age - injury rates are only slightly better than being unrestrained, and injury due to strain on the neck from the seat itself is common.

Then up to about age 2, forward facing seats have some protective effect but rear facing seats have such significantly better protection that it absolutely makes sense to recommend rear facing. Over age 2 and certainly 3 the data is less clear and it seems to be more context dependent.

Seatbelts/booster seats don't provide much benefit over being unrestrained until around 2-3 years old, and even then it's not great. 5 point harness seats continue to offer a significant benefit over seatbelt/booster until around 4-6 years, after this the data is less clear.

Seatbelt alone is dangerous before age 3 as said, but since there are significant benefits of other seats until 4-6 you could use that as a minimum. In terms of difference between seatbelt and booster seat, the numbers are even fuzzier here because you tend to have big age groups and they often only bother to look at children up to about age 8 and don't look at figures for older children.

To say more simply:

Absolute minimum for forward facing: Around 1 year, better 2-3 years for best risk reduction.

Absolute minimum for booster seat: Around 3 years, 4-6 years for best risk reduction.

Absolute minimum for seatbelt use: Around 6 years, 8+ years for best risk reduction.

Current UK law is:

Forward facing minimum 9kg (approx 9 months) or minimum 15 months depending on the seat. Majority of seats on market have the 15 month minimum.

Booster seat minimum 15kg/100cm (approx 3 years)

Seatbelt minimum 135cm or 12 years (135cm is on average 9-10 years).

grumpygrape · 31/05/2024 20:04

TheOneWithUnagi · 31/05/2024 19:23

Such strange reactions here - OP wants her child to rear face so that should really be the end of it.

I choose to rear face my children. We have the right seats to do so, the big one has never complained (little one is only 8 months anyway). She is nearly 4 but the height of a 5 year old and has PLENTY of room. She plays "I spy" with us and spots diggers out the windows so can see just fine. We chat in the car and she listens to music. She has never gotten car sick, and doesn't eat in the car. She naps in the car and never complains so must be comfortable. She will be rear facing as long as possible.

If you don't choose to rear face your children I am not judging you. We all make the right choices for our family. I have no idea what is going on with you - my second child might get massively car sick or hate rear facing for whatever reason and maybe then we would consider turning him sooner. For now I have no reason to do so, so I'm choosing not to.

IRL most of my friends RFed until about 3 years old. I know 2 others rear facing for longer like us.

At last, someone else has seen the underlying issue here. OP and, presumably, her OH have made a decision but his mother is choosing to challenge that.
Dummies/soothers, call them what you will. Reusable nappies or disposable.
Gentle parenting or not. Surely it's the parents decision ? Grands can be a support or a PITA. Unless she has a reasonable challenge to the parents' decisions she should suck it up.

fungipie · 31/05/2024 20:52

Ah yes, totally. But she doesn't have to drive baby around either, or spend much of her valuable retirement time childminding either.

Give and take- but I do think it is a bit much to expect grand-parents to childmind endlessly and for free, and have to follow lists of rules to the letter either. Not easy. Give and take.

Workasateamanddoitmyway · 31/05/2024 20:59

grumpygrape · 31/05/2024 20:04

At last, someone else has seen the underlying issue here. OP and, presumably, her OH have made a decision but his mother is choosing to challenge that.
Dummies/soothers, call them what you will. Reusable nappies or disposable.
Gentle parenting or not. Surely it's the parents decision ? Grands can be a support or a PITA. Unless she has a reasonable challenge to the parents' decisions she should suck it up.

I think that underlying issue has already been discussed a fair bit earlier in and throughout the thread, in tandem with the discussion about the suitability of rear facing car seats. It's a long thread to read though, I appreciate.

ByPeachSeal · 31/05/2024 21:16

fungipie · 31/05/2024 20:52

Ah yes, totally. But she doesn't have to drive baby around either, or spend much of her valuable retirement time childminding either.

Give and take- but I do think it is a bit much to expect grand-parents to childmind endlessly and for free, and have to follow lists of rules to the letter either. Not easy. Give and take.

There should be no give and take when it comes to a child’s safety. It isn’t a compromise.

It isn’t about “following the rules to the letter”. It isn’t the same as no chocolate or make sure he wears a sunhat or only the crocs for the garden.

It’s a matter of life or death. It’s about keeping their grandchildren, who they profess to love I’m sure, as safe as they can possibly be.

Elisabeth3468 · 31/05/2024 21:26

fungipie · 31/05/2024 20:52

Ah yes, totally. But she doesn't have to drive baby around either, or spend much of her valuable retirement time childminding either.

Give and take- but I do think it is a bit much to expect grand-parents to childmind endlessly and for free, and have to follow lists of rules to the letter either. Not easy. Give and take.

This is very presumptuous.
She's not retired for one and she's early 60s. She works and has a social life and rarely looks after my son and I would never expect her to either. I can count on one hand the times she's looked after him and this has only been for an hour or two.
I never asked her to buy a seat and really she doesn't need one which is why I was so stumped as to why she went and got this forward facing one.
My mum is the only person out of grandparents that helps with childcare and she has him one morning a week. She also works as she's in her 50s. I'm in my 20s.

OP posts:
jazzyfazzy766 · 31/05/2024 21:44

I thought you could only get rear facing till 9 months then they went in a forward facing. Didn't know this was a thing- I have lots of friends and relatives with children and go in cars with them and never seen a toddler in a rear facing car seat. They look really uncomfortable as just had a look online. It's a difficult one because if I was getting a car seat for someone I would probably get forward facing one because that is what I know. I just asked my friend who has a little one and she uses forward facing for her 3 yr old because she likes to be able to see her daughter in the mirror when she is driving and she didn't know about rear facing past a year either!

IgnoranceNotOk · 31/05/2024 22:00

Well done OP!
ERF seems to be quite rare surprisingly! My huge, heavy almost 5 year old is still rear facing and is happy enough. His brother did too until 5 when he was too tall - 91st centile.

It’s a lot safer and they’ll be in a forward facing for years anyway so I don’t get why people rush into forward facing.

ByPeachSeal · 31/05/2024 22:13

jazzyfazzy766 · 31/05/2024 21:44

I thought you could only get rear facing till 9 months then they went in a forward facing. Didn't know this was a thing- I have lots of friends and relatives with children and go in cars with them and never seen a toddler in a rear facing car seat. They look really uncomfortable as just had a look online. It's a difficult one because if I was getting a car seat for someone I would probably get forward facing one because that is what I know. I just asked my friend who has a little one and she uses forward facing for her 3 yr old because she likes to be able to see her daughter in the mirror when she is driving and she didn't know about rear facing past a year either!

They’re not really uncomfortable. ERF seats are designed for children to comfortably rear face until 6 or 7 years old.

It is a shame your friend has not bothered to do any research on the safest car seat for her child.

MIL has bought a forward facing seat for 2 year old?
grumpygrape · 31/05/2024 22:56

fungipie · 31/05/2024 20:52

Ah yes, totally. But she doesn't have to drive baby around either, or spend much of her valuable retirement time childminding either.

Give and take- but I do think it is a bit much to expect grand-parents to childmind endlessly and for free, and have to follow lists of rules to the letter either. Not easy. Give and take.

But the OP has said she doesn't 'childmind endlessly', freely or otherwise. The point is she is anticipating going against OP and partner/spouse's (her own son's) wishes.

brentwoods · 01/06/2024 01:27

Workasateamanddoitmyway · 30/05/2024 22:59

Goodness me.. I totally missed that and I thought I had been an OK mum of my babies! Well done for getting that bit right. I bought everything I was given advice on at the time. Feel dreadful now 😬.

Edited

I'm sure you were and are a great mum. We all do the best we can based on the info we have at the time. I happened to be connected to a group of mums that knew all about car seat safety and extended rear facing and it made an impression on me. (Even so, I only RFed mine until 3 and not beyond that).

G5000 · 01/06/2024 07:20

We do our best based on avaliable evidence. And advice is constantly updated - I strictly avoided allergens for DC1 as it was advised at that time, so I also feel guilty when reading the research that recommends the exact opposite, as he did in fact develop a peanut allergy. But I would not attack and ridicule someone who has decided to follow the more recent advice, just because the older was 'good enough for me'.

BertieBotts · 01/06/2024 09:22

brentwoods · 01/06/2024 01:27

I'm sure you were and are a great mum. We all do the best we can based on the info we have at the time. I happened to be connected to a group of mums that knew all about car seat safety and extended rear facing and it made an impression on me. (Even so, I only RFed mine until 3 and not beyond that).

Edited

That makes sense, I was wondering where you'd seen advice to RF up to age 2 in 1999! Was it an American group? They seemed to be more clued up earlier. In the UK it would have been very difficult maybe impossible to buy a rear facing seat past 13kg. And there were only a few of those. Most only went up to 10kg at that time. Forward facing at 9kg/6 months was the advice given out by most retailers and RoSPA (I have a leaflet from them somewhere!) And there were even seats that used the adult seatbelt from 9kg. Unbelievable today.

HorticusGreen · 01/06/2024 11:23

BertieBotts · 01/06/2024 09:22

That makes sense, I was wondering where you'd seen advice to RF up to age 2 in 1999! Was it an American group? They seemed to be more clued up earlier. In the UK it would have been very difficult maybe impossible to buy a rear facing seat past 13kg. And there were only a few of those. Most only went up to 10kg at that time. Forward facing at 9kg/6 months was the advice given out by most retailers and RoSPA (I have a leaflet from them somewhere!) And there were even seats that used the adult seatbelt from 9kg. Unbelievable today.

We owned one in...2005ish and I'd already read up quite a lot in the preceding years. The first was a made by an Italian company (Fair) and we had to order it specially from a UK company. The second was a Volvo seat.
That's partly why I'm shocked as I assumed they were mainstream by now. I've seen a few locally.

MinnieGirl · 01/06/2024 12:22

TheOneWithUnagi · 31/05/2024 19:23

Such strange reactions here - OP wants her child to rear face so that should really be the end of it.

I choose to rear face my children. We have the right seats to do so, the big one has never complained (little one is only 8 months anyway). She is nearly 4 but the height of a 5 year old and has PLENTY of room. She plays "I spy" with us and spots diggers out the windows so can see just fine. We chat in the car and she listens to music. She has never gotten car sick, and doesn't eat in the car. She naps in the car and never complains so must be comfortable. She will be rear facing as long as possible.

If you don't choose to rear face your children I am not judging you. We all make the right choices for our family. I have no idea what is going on with you - my second child might get massively car sick or hate rear facing for whatever reason and maybe then we would consider turning him sooner. For now I have no reason to do so, so I'm choosing not to.

IRL most of my friends RFed until about 3 years old. I know 2 others rear facing for longer like us.

Thank goodness for the voice of reason….
This post has got very seriously derailed and judgemental.
Surely as parents, we should all strive to do what is best for our own children, and not criticise or judge what other parents do for theirs!

The very premise of this topic is that Op’s MiL has bought a forward facing car seat. But OP chooses to continue to use a rear facing seat for her child. As is her right. Her child, her decision. The issue is not arguing about rear v forward facing seats, but about MiL choosing to ignore OP’s parenting decisions.

Im a Nana and what mum says goes. I’ve had my time, now it’s up to her. And I’m just so very grateful I have a relationship with my precious grandbaby.

brentwoods · 01/06/2024 21:30

BertieBotts · 01/06/2024 09:22

That makes sense, I was wondering where you'd seen advice to RF up to age 2 in 1999! Was it an American group? They seemed to be more clued up earlier. In the UK it would have been very difficult maybe impossible to buy a rear facing seat past 13kg. And there were only a few of those. Most only went up to 10kg at that time. Forward facing at 9kg/6 months was the advice given out by most retailers and RoSPA (I have a leaflet from them somewhere!) And there were even seats that used the adult seatbelt from 9kg. Unbelievable today.

Yes! Great guess. it was an American "natural mothering group" online that was focused on breastfeeding, baby led weaning, carseat safety, cloth diapering and other related topics. We were in the US at the time and it was at the beginning of the push for extended rear facing so I also met a lot of mums in real life who were similarly minded.

Gruffallowhydidntyouknow · 01/06/2024 22:26

Jeannie88 · 30/05/2024 18:42

Same here, always used a forward facing seat from about a year old. After lots of research we decided this was better as can actually see DC, especially on longer journeys. X

Look at the videos of what happens to a toddlers head in impact.

CableCar · 01/06/2024 22:31

YANBU - I kept my 2 forward facing until they outgrew their erf carseats. My DS and DD grandparents all thought it was ridiculous, as the carseats they had when their kids were young were minimal in terms of safety. But I just stuck to my stance... I wanted my children to erf, regardless if I was the only person I knew who did it! YANBU, tell her you won't forward face your LO and that's that.

Sharptonguedwoman · 02/06/2024 20:12

ByPeachSeal · 31/05/2024 17:45

You still haven’t said how old he is or what seat it is.

He’s 3 now and I don’t know the make of the seat. It’s a friend’s grandchild. He’s in the seat his parents think best, rear facing. The parents had a mirror attached to the seat back to watch him in.
He hated car travel as a small child, screamed for the whole journey. A view of the seat back is obviously much safer but not exciting.
I have no children in this game but I am allowed to wonder.

superplumb · 02/06/2024 21:35

Your child your views. Both of mine were rear seating. In some countries its the law ( Sweden I think) due to safety
Sounds like she's trying it on. Just tell her she's wasted her money because it won't be used.

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