To not see how the gov will make any money from taxing private schools?

[AngryHedgehog]

All the other threads seem to have descended into bunfighting over the ethics of the policy, yet I'm not really understanding how this stands to benefit the government as surely they'll be footing the bill for all the kids that move to state schools?

As a disclaimer, I don't have kids and wouldn't be able to afford to privately educate them even if I did, despite earning a half decent salary.

I'm reading that it costs around £7k per pupil per term, so it would take the VAT from around four families to fund each additional child moving to state education.

Given that this may be 4/10 kids in private education moving to state schooling, I don't see how this doesn't create a net loss as there will only be 50% more kids left in private education and there needs to be multiple times that for the VAT increase to foot the bill.

Surely I'm missing something here?

I'm sorry about that, but with respect, painting state schools as a place where no clever kids can thrive is just plain wrong.

What’s confusing. Different people will have different opinions. Some people think a good amount will leave, some think a few will some think non will.

However, no one has stated the opinion that all children will leave private school, due to this.

and if even if they did all leave, it’s a small amount of students compared to the amount already in state schools. So the likelihood of there being enough to introduce a cultural change with schools is tiny.

The number of pupils moving into state schools may be spread across the country rather than in to only one location, but the cost will still be the same as state funding is per pupil (maybe Government will hope hope they go to areas where the funding is lower). Although sounds like Edinburgh may struggle with the high percentage of private schools.

@AhNowTed I’m not saying that, I know many children who have thrived, but it can be a struggle for some children especially if they live in a usually lower aspirational demographic. And a small number of previously privately educated pupils going to schools in those areas are not going to make an area suddenly aspirational

Who is saying that? What people are saying is that it is foolish to think that ex private school pupils are going to revolutionise state schools.

So true. Attitudes to education in the UK are appalling. In other countries, being a teacher carries prestige. Here teachers are the object of contempt. Parents undermine their children’s teachers, fail to support their child’s learning and abuse school staff. I guess it is a continuation of that devaluation. Increasingly I want my children to see their future as being outside of this country.

I think it is the idea that middle class parents will pour money, previously spent on school fees, into their new state school. I can’t tell how unlikely I think that it. We have used money previously paid to our son’s prep school on tuition for him, music lessons, skiing holidays.

I think it is extremely unlikely. My son goes to one of the highest performing state grammar schools in the country. They are struggling to raise money for a new mini bus despite having many middle class professional parents. We’re all feeling the pinch with our mortgages massively increasing, our car and home insurance doubling etc.

And for some moving next to a top state school

I agree with you btw

Wrong. I give a fuck about my child’s education. I will do everything in my power to help and support MY child. The problem with state education in the UK is the large rump of parents who either actively undermine their child’s school, teachers and learning, or who passively undermine it by not providing their child with equipment (like a simple biro), refuse to adhere to basic school rules and don’t show up for parents’ evening appointments, etc. The problems are societal. As a country we prefer to pay for stuff other than education, like giving wealthy pensioners freebies or giving development aid to India.

I think it is the idea that middle class parents will pour money, previously spent on school fees, into their new state school. I can’t tell how unlikely I think that it.

Yes. James Dyson tried to give a substantial donation to his old state school and they refused to take it.

We live in a grammar county and I have bright kids so both have switched. If we didn’t, we would have moved into the catchment area of the best state school we could find. This policy will cost money, disrupt children’s educations, provoke law suits and cause some private schools to close.

@Barbadossunset there can be rules for what they can accept

Same here. Lots of professional parents at DS1’s school and the fund raising emails are endless, people give but very small amounts.

I experienced horrendous bullying at private school because I was perceived as poor with a foreign mother and was also on a scholarship. I was not poor but sadly neglected in appearance.

Bullying is rife in all schools sadly and you might not even know if your kids is being bullied or the bully. To say you don’t want your kid to be bullied is not a reason to stop VAT on schools. You just needs to keep lines of communication open with your kid and school.

And where did I say that bullying was a reason not to put VAT on school fees? Or to stop my DC being bullied. The discussion point was about ex private school children helping to improve state schools. Stop twisting things to suit your agenda.

Bleughgreen sorry I should’ve checked before taking an earlier post as gospel.
I’ve googled it and at first the council refused the £6 million donation to a primary school, but then in January 2024 the government overruled the council’s ban and said it must be accepted.
Then there was something about the government denying it had banned the donation, so I don’t know what’s going on.

He has given substantial donations to Gresham’s which were gratefully accepted.

State schools are always chasing donations!

Because the biggest problem in state schools is low level disruption which prevents the lesson running smoothly and hinders learning of the 2/3 or so if pupils who want to learn.

It doesn’t work like that. They fund per pupil.

Yep

I am really unsure if ex private school pupils will help to improve the state schools.

we are likely to switch to state schools at natural exit points. Like @Teentaxidriver , I care about MY children. As a family we have gone through a horrific time recently (bereavement and currently terminal illness in immediate family). For my DS, this has manifested as really poor behaviour. I feel unsupported by our (private) school in terms of academics (DS just switched off) and in terms of maintaining discipline in class.

I have worked like a dog to get him to the top of the class, not by tutors as the school fees take every penny we got, but with buying the school books and constantly revise with him based on these across all topics.

The school is trying to improve discipline to their credit and he seems to get detention at least weekly, usually several times per week (I am supportive of that). For some teachers, it is worse than for others. He also seems to be worse behaved in topics where he is stronger (mucking about, whispering answers, chatting instead of listening).

He will be one of the additions to a state school at a natural exit point in a couple of years. I suspect he will continue to be a pain in school and that I will continue to teach him at home. Not sure why he would improve any state school but happy for them to try.

he will get the average grades up but good luck to any teacher trying to control him in a big class (they struggle in a small one).

I am concerned that if this is how they are planning to fund the state sector then we aren’t going to see standards improve much as I just don’t think this policy is going to raise enough so i hope they are going to earmark more funds from their general budget.
re the input vat mentioned upthread . Teachers salaries are the biggest expense and these are out of the scope of vat anyway. Educational books don’t have vat either if I recall . So it will be pretty much building maintenance costs , school mini vans etc where input vat is applicable .
and if parents choose to carry on paying higher fees they will no doubt tighten their belts elsewhere so a pretty pointless exercise in my view.

just to add. My kids are also finished school and we’re state educated so not a disgruntled private school parent