To not see how the gov will make any money from taxing private schools?

[AngryHedgehog]

All the other threads seem to have descended into bunfighting over the ethics of the policy, yet I'm not really understanding how this stands to benefit the government as surely they'll be footing the bill for all the kids that move to state schools?

As a disclaimer, I don't have kids and wouldn't be able to afford to privately educate them even if I did, despite earning a half decent salary.

I'm reading that it costs around £7k per pupil per term, so it would take the VAT from around four families to fund each additional child moving to state education.

Given that this may be 4/10 kids in private education moving to state schooling, I don't see how this doesn't create a net loss as there will only be 50% more kids left in private education and there needs to be multiple times that for the VAT increase to foot the bill.

Surely I'm missing something here?

A group of heads of specialist independeng schools where all or a majority of their pupils have ehcps have asked to speak to starmer to understand how this will be applied and he hant obliged. It would be really easy to set up a 30 mins teams call and the say 'kier starmer today had a teams call with a group of heads and they all went away reassured'

The tories have also not met with the heads but they haven't proposed a policy that might impact on them.

I am not a conservative voter and they have run SEN to the grounds, but I dont think its unreasonable for Labour to meet with special school heads who have asked for a meeting and get them on board. If it's so clear and obvious they won't be affected it's a win win meeting that will be short.

You are not paying for your kids education and this is not making any sense.

But if EHCPs are exempt what do they need to know?

You're right - I'm a drain.

No you are not a drain but your child’s education is not at risk - it’s the only provision suitable as you know.

This^
as I’m sure a lot of people pointed out already.

Your kids aren’t a drain - this is entirely the point of taxes IMO. There’s nothing I resent less than my tax being used to educate children who through absolutely no fault of their own can’t access mainstream education.
I do think you’re catastrophising a little (as are many on the threads about this topic!) given EHCP’s will be exempt but given your experiences I can understand why you’re desperate not to have it taken away from them!

He hasn't explained how. Whether it's the institution is exempt from charging vat, whether the LA will reclaim the VAT, and presumably those parents who are paying as they didn't apply for an ehcp need to know if it's the institution or the LA to give them time to apply for an ehcp if this is their tipping point. In addition some schools will let a parent pay during the 20 weeks it takes for their ehcp and tribunal to happen so the child is not out of school and then the LA takes over the fee.

Since it is causing great concern with SEN parents I don't really understand what Labour has to lose by explaining how. They could also take the opportunity to say what they will do to improve SEN generally.

Boohoo

You’re not a drain and neither is your child.

Most will keep their kids in private undoubtedly.

Private schools are not charities and shouldn’t have charitable status.

someone on a local forum to me is bleating about how their private lets the plebs in to use the science block once a month so they give back LOADS to the community. FFS

The private schools round here are planning to absorb 10% of the cost and pass 10% on to parents.

That’s a real slap in the face to mothers here who want what is best for their children and make sacrifices to do it for them. I don’t see people on threads where provision for low earners has been cut displaying such contempt. “Oh your free school meals have been cancelled? Boo hoo, you useless scroungers should have been grateful you had it for so long in the first place” Yeah, you’d be horrid. Why is it ok to gloat at people who struggle and graft to give their kids the best opportunities?

But it’s what Labour do. They consider people who can afford to send their children to private school are wealthy, but many make big sacrifices to pay the fees - cheap house, no holidays, no luxuries. The very wealthy will continue to send their dcs to private school as will be able to suck up the extra cost but, as usual, middle earners will be hit the most by the introduction of the VAT. But I think this is the least of our worries currently - all the infighting already in the Labour Party with the Abbott situation is making the electorate nervous. Both parties are pretty awful.

Are you mad? You think going to private over state is comparable to free school meals for hungry children?

jesus Christ I’ve heard it all now.

it’s a massive privilege to go to private school and it simply shouldn’t be VAT free. It’s not a charity, it’s a money making exercise.

If you can afford it great. If I could I would send my kids!

I went to private school myself and know how fantastic the opportunities are.

But no, I won’t cry for privileged children being “forced” to go to a state school instead. How awful for them 🙄

That’s their choice to make that sacrifice though?

it’s not like they’re choosing between eating or putting the heating on is it.

Lets be realistic here.

Theyre not charities and should never have been allowed to avoid paying VAT.

While they’re at it Labour should close all the loopholes for big companies avoiding tax too

Please tell me you haven’t just equated the poorest children losing access to possibly their only hot meal of the day with parents who have £18k of disposable income to spend on education having to find an extra £3k 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️add yes - I know there are plenty who work extra and make sacrifices (although actually no one who I know actually in the private system has had that experience but it’s bandied around on here a lot so I assume at least some do) but it’s so far from equivalent that the comparison is painful.

And can we stop implying that parents who don’t want to or can’t find money for private schools don’t want the best for their kids ffs.

They’re not the same. I wasn’t trying to say they are the same. What I am saying is that the specific “boohoo” comment is extremely offensive to people who struggle to do their best for their child, and such gloating seems to be prevalent in envious people, who would be offended if I were to gloat at their misfortune.

No. Don’t deliberately misinterpret what I said. I equate the gloating of the previous poster and point out the offence that would be taken if people were to gloat at their misfortune.

At the independent schools I know of, the parents pay the fees plus they pay for 1-1 support themselves. So these people will undoubtedly be affected as their fees will increase even if the 1-1 doesn't.

You are equating the two though. The situation isn’t even remotely the same!

The parent I quoted said that they paid £18k per year and that increases would push it out of being “comfortable.”

Thats in no way comparable to a parent not being able to afford a nutritious lunch for their child.

Get your head out of your arse and see what people are actually struggling with!

The privilege on show here is shocking to me

Private school fees have jumped about +30% since 2012 yet the % of kids going to private school has stayed stable at around 6%. Actual numbers were up 10% in the 10 years to 2022.

I don't imagine the influx of kids to state will be noticeable.

Should have tried harder at school. See, it ain’t nice.

2012 is a while back and that makes it much more gradual

Nice to see you don’t care about hungry children.

Rich parents benefitting from unfair tax breaks much more important hey!