AIBU to date a man that my close friend has dated?

[Bertiebellender]

My close friend and I (We’ll call her Amy) are both single. We have been for a couple years!
She is actively and regularly dating. Currently seeing someone now, but these things tend to be short lived.
She tends to take an approach of throwing herself into dating, to get to know people.
I on the other hand rarely date unless I see something special in a man.

The man in question (let’s call him Daniel) is on the periphery of our social circles.
My friend bonded with him at a party that I couldn’t attend at the beginning of the year.
Shortly after the party Daniel went away for a
month with work. The company he works for were setting up business abroad.
Amy and Daniel would text and call often. Making arrangements to meet when he got back.
There was nothing physical between them. But they shared a lot of personal stuff and bonded over similar experiences. As well as all the normal flirting.
Amy really liked him and wanted to see where things could go.
Daniel on the other hand felt he wasn’t in the right place to be dating and didn’t want to ruin the friendship.
I don’t think that they actually went on a date. Just a couple of months max of calls and texts.
They remained in contact as friends, albeit sporadic. She has seen him in person since but with another friend at a gig.
Amy was very upset at the time, having become really close, emotionally.

I have ran into Daniel a handful of times. Previously I would have just been polite, as an acquaintance, didn’t really know him to spend time chatting.

But since the situation with Amy I’ve been friendly with him, as we both have Amy in common.
We recently ended up on the same train together for an hour chatting about various topics.
I felt that I’d really warmed to him. We messaged a few times since (fb messenger, we haven’t swapped numbers), nothing major but I was feeling interested in him as a person.
He’s just asked me out on a date.
I feel like he could be a good match in terms of values and interests, I like his sense of humour and he’s easy to talk to.
I think he’s attractive.
He ticks a lot of boxes and seems like a good person.
I’ve met many of Amy’s dates in the past.
Friendly but platonic with most.
The occasional one has shown an interest
but it was one sided, I’ve never considered it.
This is different, I feel differently about this man.

a) My friend is kind and will tell me it’s fine. But I think she will still be hurt.
Therefore I’m stupid to even consider this.
And should reject him for “dating” my friend first.

b) I rarely feel like I want to date anyone.
I feel like Amy will have dated most single men our age in our local area, that I will struggle to find anyone to date who she hasn’t previously dated.
This scenario was inevitable at some point and I should just speak to my friend first before I accept a date.

I can’t sleep and need some perspective on this.
AIBU to consider this at all?
Would you be upset if you were in Amy’s position?

Me too. I’d be entirely upfront with her, but also be unapologetic about pursuing my own interests in the circumstances, if the pool of non-ghastly available men isn’t big, and Amy dates everyone.

So, what, potentially just be single forever because Amy gets to all the guys first and forms premature emotional attachments with them?

You're not being a bad friend to want to go on a fucking date with a guy who at most sexted with her. If Amy has a problem with it, enough to ruin the friendship, SHE'D be the one being a bad friend for putting a brief flirtation (just one of many, I might add) before her friendship with you.

Amy's going to have to accept at some point that getting attached to so many men in quick succession might mean that some of those men end up in relationships with her own friends because the local dating pool isn't bottomless.

Maybe you’re right.
Amy has never asked me to not date anyone.
She’s not done anything wrong here.

It probably is a bigger problem around my approach to dating.
I know I can’t manage Amy’s approach to it all. Feeling on the back foot a little.
I was hoping she’d have found someone, then I could find someone after.

Talk to Amy, not in a way that you are asking for her permission but just for the sake of being transparent and honest with her. Tell her Daniel asked you out on a date and double check that they are not dating at the moment. I think that would be sufficient. I am sure she will understand if it was not a serious relationship, and maybe will even encourage you to go, saving you all the worries.

I agree with your points

Daniel wasnt ready to date Amy because he didnt want to. It is just a nicer way of saying it.

Amy may be disappointed to realise that as she liked him more but I doubt it will be any more disappointing than if he started dating a stranger.

As long as you speak to her so she knows about possible date and that you have considered her feelings then you have done nothing wrong.

If i were Amy i wouldnt want you to miss out on a chance with Daniel because of me. What if you pass up this opportunity and then Amy meets the love of her life in current guy?

If he was a boyfriend or someone who treated Amy badly it would be different but as you say it is a small world so impossible to avoid any crossover.

I totally get why you might not want to jeopardise your friendship with Amy. And I agree with what you and others have said, it's possible Amy may be hurt by this, based on how you have described her and the situation.

However, I'm not convinced that's a sufficient reason not to pursue this, and you also need to consider your own feelings, not just Amy's.

By not pursuing this, YOU are being hurt - you have described feeling resentful of Amy's monopoly on men in your area above.

Yes, it's unfortunate Daniel is this particular guy and not one of the other men Amy has made connections with over the past few months. But, you can't help who you're attracted to and, as you say, connections like this for you are not common. Again, it's not as if they are exes or dated.

If Amy is a true friend, then she should ultimately be able to come through the other side and be happy for you if this turns out to be the guy for you. You have described her previously as "not unreasonable". I agree with @RedRobyn2021, you should say this previous post to Amy. Be brave :)

Do not let this chance of happiness pass you by.

He wasn't for her.

Maybe he's for you. You'll never know. Don't live a life of regret. Wondering if.
Take your chances of happiness.
She liked him, but they never dated.

If you read this in a book you'd be thinking what a silly story line. The friend ie YOU is too nice!'

Too nice never gets you anywhere. No good deed goes unpunished.

Re-read the way you describe Amy - you describe her in quite derogatory terms

You do not seem to value her at all - you describe her like a trollop, so yeah go out with him and ruin your friendship

Whatever the ins and outs of it, just ask her. It may even help her.

I was Amy with one guy - I was really into him, we actually went on a few dates, and he was always messaging me. But my situation didn't suit him, and so he called it off.

About a month later, my best friend asked me if I'd be ok if she dated him. I said yes, of course, even though I was a bit hurt at the thought of them together. But it got me thinking - it was really something and nothing between us.

He and my friend got quite serious, and honestly, my goodness, it showed me I'd missed NOTHING! He messed her about for a good 6 months and was totally unavailable. Bullet dodged!

Now maybe this guy will turn out to be different - but either way, it can help your friend move on. I'd have genuinely been delighted if they'd ended up together, once I'd dwelled on it a bit and got my head around it.

Which bits?
I assume you mean the way I describe her dating style vs mine?
It provides the context of how the dilemma has arisen.

Im describing it factually. You are inferring the meaning behind it.

If you read my further replies you can see further context.
Amy dates differently to me.
She is quick to talk to many people, romantically and socially.
Which means in dating she is quick to rule them out if they are not suitable.
”Trollop” ??? She’s not sleeping with all these dates. and I’ve made no mention of her sex life.
other than to say there was nothing physical with Daniel.

Her dating approach is effective in moving unsuitable men out of the picture. Hopefully getting her match quicker.
I on the other hand hold out for someone special to date, which is holding me back massively.

I do feel like she has a monopoly on the dating pool, based on numbers - this is factual in a relatively small place.

If anything it’s a good, purposeful strategy to dating.
But my question wasn’t “should one of us change their dating approach”

You’ve read a lot into my OP and sound quite angry for some reason.

If you’re referring to something, then I don’t know what you mean?

The other thing that has just occurred to me is that this never used to be a “thing”; in the days when only an engagement or marriage cemented a serious relationship, people would often “date” in that way, without it implying anything serious at all. For example, my FIL will often joke about the fact that he took my MIL’s sister on a couple of dates before he got involved with MIL. That would mean that they went to the cinema a couple of times - no sense of anything wrong with that or that it meant anything more than that. In my day, if someone asked you out, after two or three dates you would probably consider yourself to be an item and would be mightily hacked off if that person was dating someone else at the same time. Buy online dating has meant a more scattergun, probably more casual, approach to the whole thing. It’s kind that you’re so mindful of Amy’s feelings, but I do think you’re taking a rather extreme position. And I speak from experience: that kind of meaningful connection doesn’t come along very often. If you think you might have found it, I think you would be foolish to pass it up.

I would tell her that you rarely date or feel you meet someone who has so much potential.

What clinched it for me is that she has already dated most single men in your area. I think that piece of information makes it a different situation for you, compared to if you lived in a large city.

She might be hurt about him now being ready to date, and I hope it won't hurt your friendship too much.

Did he lead her on? They met at a party. He left the country for work. They kept in touch. It turned into nothing as he wasn't really feeling it.
Where in that was he doing anything wrong?

I think this is a good approach. This way, OP isn't asking for permission (which she doesn't have to anyway) while also giving Amy a heads up AND allowing for a conversation about how to deal with this going forward IF Amy objects in anyway.

Ideally it would go like this:

OP: Daniel asked me out and I wanted to double check nothing's happening between you before I accept.
Amy: No we're not dating. Have fun!

Or if Amy objects:

OP: Daniel asked me out and I wanted to double check nothing's happening between you before I accept.
Amy: You can't see Daniel!
OP: Why not?
Amy: I still have feelings for him.
OP: But you've seen x, y and z since then. You date faster than me. I can't just write off everyone you may or may not have 'dated' in the past. I wouldn't expect you to pass up someone because I've dated them previously. There's not an endless supply of men. Maybe we need to discuss how to manage this sort of scenario going forward?

(Obviously all worded in a more unstilted way!)

They got quite deep emotionally and also "sexted", according to OP. Presuming this is a man also in his late 30's, I'd call that leading someone on, yes.

Totally agree with this.

I've been wondering why all the shade at Daniel. So they had a few deep talks and some digital flirtation. He didn't swear undying love and then leave Amy at the altar. Lots of adults have brief, intense connections and manage to move on without trauma.

Considering him off limits because of some chats and texts is just bizarre to me. Especially since she's moved on to dating multiple other people.

Depends on the nature of the messages. I have men friends that I message. No one is leading anyone on. He was abroad. She kept messaging him. They were 'friend' type messages by the sounds of things as he said he didn't want to move to anything other than friendship. I don't see yes done anything wrong. He didn't shag her and then dump her. They chatted online like millions of people do daily. They never even went on a date when he cake back to the UK. It sounds like he was never interested and didn't make a whole lot of suggestion that he was

"leading on" in what way? Does he owe her something because they sexted from afar? If that were the case, there'd be no brief relationships or one-night stands. Everyone would be melded to the first person they have a deep talk or flirtation with. (Nightmare scenario)

Did he make any promises or extract any promises from Amy? If not, they were two adults engaged in consensual pleasure. No strings attached and Amy has no right to feel "led on."

I did ead your replies, yes, and they all sound like you want her blessing at some point.ime example:

She’s not an unreasonable person so I think it would be a sensible discussion to outline our thoughts and boundaries on how that might play out hypothetically.

Like I said, I'm not judging you, but you do have to make a decision. I don't think it's going to be better for her if you keep in touch with him for six months, albeit at arms length, and then tell her you're into him. She might not, as you hope, find someone else in that time.

All I'm saying is that it's your decision but you do have to make a decision. Now is better than 6 months time.

@BettyBardMacDonald come on. Why are you surprised. This is MN after all. A man can't behave like any normal human being without being condemned on here.

I agree with you. They flirted. They tested the water online. It was not for him in a relationship sense so he told her he just wanted to remain friends. No part of that is leading on or deceitful. He didn't shag and dump. He could easily have met up with her and hit his jollies and then said he didn't want anything with her. It he didn't.

Otherwise, like you say, we would be welded on to the first person we had any interest in

OMG just talk to your friend. "Amy, I met that chap you were dating, Daniel? He's asked me out on a date. I'm thinking of going. What do you reckon?"

Easy. If she feels it would be a dreadful betrayal of your friendship, I'm sure she'll let you know.

However, I would be cautious about him. He was happy to get 'deep' and sexual with your friend before telling her he wasn't ready to date. What has changed in his life that he's now ready to date? Is he actually looking for a relationship? Go on the date, and ask him about all this stuff.

She's got the right to feel anything. The issue is the OP doesn't want to tread on toes, not whether Daniel or Amy are being unreasonable.

With the greatest of respect to Amy; Daniel is just not into her.

Amy does not 'own' Daniel - they had a few deep conversations that Amy liked but they didn't lead to anything.

If the pool of men is small and Amy dates a lot, then of course the venn diagram circle of men not dated by Amy will be small. There will also be a big overlap with 'dated Amy' and potential suitors.

@stepfordblanket had a good way of steering the conversation. Do not ask for 'permission,' you are doing nothing wrong.

We've all been in the unrequited feelings scenario before, it's shit but you get over it eventually.

Please don't refuse to date Daniel due to Amy's past chats. He sounds like a nice person and you both get on with each other. It's definitely worth going out for a wine / coffee to see if it could lead somewhere.

I wouldn't