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Original poster

To think Brits dislike success?

453 replies

garlicmashpotatoes · 28/05/2024 17:14

After many years of reading comments from posters on MumsNet and other forums, I get the impression that many Brits cannot stand to see people who have 'more than them' or achieve 'success' when they've worked hard to do so.

In America success is celebrated, and aspired to. Whereas in the UK it's often looked down upon.

Why?

OP posts:
Floatingvoternolandinsight · 29/05/2024 14:30

Goldenbear · 29/05/2024 13:57

But the criticism of British attitudes to wealth, the idea that we have a culture of not celebrating success, imo it is not really that; it is more about questioning how that success came about, Britain does have a history of inherited wealth, luck of birth, my parents were part of the 60’s revolution that challenged that, so you are brought up with the ideas of challenging something when it is seemingly unfair or wrong for a better society. It isn’t about not celebrating success, it’s about fairness and equality of opportunity. If you are from a different country where maybe obedience, hierarchy and corruption (not suggesting you are) is rife or even just conservatism with a small c is more revered, then it may appear to be self-wallowing or anti-success but it is not that, it is steeped in a political history of people fighting for certain rights and challenging the establishment. In fact, the class system is highly relevant here and still appears to permeate much of British life. I certainly know quite a few upper middle class people even upper class people that have been afforded an advantage from birth. They have gone to the best schools and I think this is what people are referencing. I do have close family that are outwardly very successful and haven’t had that advantage at all but their whole life has not been as easy as the colleagues born into that privilege. That privilege is a real thing and can be small things like access to amazing work team trips, second properties, not worrying about the price of a very nice lunch, something they probably think everyone has access to, getting tickets given to them for events everyone else has to save for, the list goes on and on!

Show quote history

But that is not what people are experiencing across Mumsnet and even on this thread. Nobody disputes that some have advantages that others can only dream of. However, those that have worked to get out of poverty have their labour dismissed and are told they are lucky and how dare they say they have worked hard because everyone know that's a dig at anyone who has less than you.

If someone has any level of success or is even struggling but has a job paying minimum age and lives in a flat. somebody will come along and say "I am blind, unemployed and live in a cave so you should be grateful you have got x, y and z. Your success is luck and your misery pales into insignificance compared to mine and the load I carry. Give me your money I deserve it more". Someone else will then come along and say "Oi! I have no hands and feet, don't' even have a cave and I also care for my 6 children who all have additional needs. You both should be giving money to me"

People will literally say that you could not pay them to do a certain job in one breath and moan that someone earns more in the next!

youngones1 · 29/05/2024 14:39

Some will argue that it is not fair that only people who were born with high energy and dynamism or intelligence, should become wealthy just because they were born this way...

Sue152 · 29/05/2024 14:44

I think it's a case of unhappy people find it difficult to be happy for other people.
And there are more and more unhappy people around.

Bululu · 29/05/2024 14:50

@Floatingvoternolandinsight exactly what you said.

The country has also been used and abused in the name of fairness and inequality. It seems that the only way the people with this mindset would be happy is if they are all poor so that nobody is left behind in the equality system. I definitely experienced the tall poppy syndrome and lately have reflected in the several meetings with ex colleagues and people from university and I was wondering what did I do wrong. Now I know. They were struggling to process where I started and where I am now. Sad really. I am always glad when someone do well. In fact it makes me very happy. Even if is pure luck and inheritance or something like that.

youngones1 · 29/05/2024 14:52

Bululu · 29/05/2024 14:50

@Floatingvoternolandinsight exactly what you said.

The country has also been used and abused in the name of fairness and inequality. It seems that the only way the people with this mindset would be happy is if they are all poor so that nobody is left behind in the equality system. I definitely experienced the tall poppy syndrome and lately have reflected in the several meetings with ex colleagues and people from university and I was wondering what did I do wrong. Now I know. They were struggling to process where I started and where I am now. Sad really. I am always glad when someone do well. In fact it makes me very happy. Even if is pure luck and inheritance or something like that.

Edited

They should be celebrating your success not resenting it.

midgetastic · 29/05/2024 14:59

Not always

Sometimes it's a reaction to being insulted

  • when someone attributes their success to hard work they are insulting the work ethic of the less successful person.

Sometimes it's just that you feel successful but the other person thinks "what a prat" - different values

You shouldn't need or expect other people to value you - accept that sone people find the pursuit of money in itself as not worth shouting about

If one person told me they had made a million and another told me they had learnt to speak French , I might feel the second person to be more successful and have more to be proud of - it's just the way it is

Why do I feel like that ? Guess it's just the people I have met - with most of the ones who value money being not nice people ?

Also I value the work I do and how it contributes to society, more than the work that they have done - it gets paid less but since I have enough ( average family income here ) that's fine by me

Guess I also don't value stuff as much as sone others which is why a modest income is sufficient and I can't really understand the desire for big houses, posh cars , fancy holidays because I have so much fun in my life any way ?

midgetastic · 29/05/2024 15:01

It always interests me on property shows - the least happy people on the whole are those with the biggest budgets - they can never find what they want , never satisfied

Not always of course but a clear trend

Perhaps this desire to be celebrated is part of that dissatisfaction with themselves and their lives ? Always needing validation ?

YourPinkDog · 29/05/2024 15:07

@midgetastic that is an interesting observation. And yes it does appear some of the well off people want to be celebrated.
I would say what does it matter what other people think? Enjoy your life. And if you are not happy with your life, make some changes. Stop thinking about what people you do not really know think of you. It does not matter.

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 29/05/2024 16:10

It's not that people don't acknowledge the "hard work " part. Most people actually do. They also celebrate and respect that.

It's the insistence that luck played absolutely no part in it and all it took was that hard work. It's comments like "unwilling ", "lazy", "victim mentality ", "personal responsibility ".

I'm not successful,but I'm ok. However ,many people with my background are nowhere near ok. Mental health issues, drug addicts, even dead (either by suicide or otherwise). I am ok because I got lucky in certain things.

Let's take Jane and Sarah. Similar backgrounds, growing up in poverty , not many prospects, but they worked hard ,studied hard ,went to uni.

Then at a critical time at uni, Sarah got raped, got pregnant, got marched into an abortion. She crashed and burned massively, severe mental breakdown, no understanding ,no support ,no help.

Jane was lucky to have the right circumstances and no traumatic /disruptive events to keep studying and get her qualifications and then keep flying high.

Sarah was extremely unlucky to "fail" uni and get no qualifications . That does not negate her hard work before. It does not negate her hard work after to simply keep going, even if she ended up with a (poorly paid) job rather than a career.

Luck plays a part in everything. From genetics, to intellectual ability, to disabilities, to home life/environment, to that one teacher that believes in you/inspires you/encourages you, to that one lucky break, to being in the right place at the right time and so on.

If you need to tell yourself it's all down to your hard work because you need that validation, fair enough. Just don't gleefully shout it out to others ,while insulting them at the same time and showing how much better you are. That kind of validation is not ok. You're not better, you are luckier.

Maverickess · 29/05/2024 17:11

I think for some who insist on the 'hard work and sacrifices' and unsuccessful= didn't do that, it's maybe rooted in needing to believe that it's a level playing field and outside influences have little to no bearing if you just try hard enough, because it's quite scary to think that someone else's decisions, action, inaction etc could have a big impact.
I think that's why we're hearing a lot about the 'squeezed middle' during this COL crisis, I think some genuinely believed that their hard work and sacrifices would shield them against anything like this, they'd done what they needed to do to get the lifestyle they wanted, and that was that.

Now because of outside influences beyond their control, that hard work and sacrifice isn't delivering as they believed it would and should.

Goldenbear · 29/05/2024 17:15

Pollipops1 · 29/05/2024 14:04

@Goldenbear my parents were really aware of the above hence why they pushed education hard & helped us onto the ladder

Yes, education was key in my family, especially for my Dad!

Goldenbear · 29/05/2024 17:17

YourPinkDog · 29/05/2024 14:04

@Goldenbear I agree. When I was very poor I knew people who would holiday in family holiday homes for example. Some of the things others take for granted are a dream for others.

Yes, this is it, it is hidden advantage and despite being nice people they don’t know they are born!

Ciderlout · 29/05/2024 17:29

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 29/05/2024 16:10

It's not that people don't acknowledge the "hard work " part. Most people actually do. They also celebrate and respect that.

It's the insistence that luck played absolutely no part in it and all it took was that hard work. It's comments like "unwilling ", "lazy", "victim mentality ", "personal responsibility ".

I'm not successful,but I'm ok. However ,many people with my background are nowhere near ok. Mental health issues, drug addicts, even dead (either by suicide or otherwise). I am ok because I got lucky in certain things.

Let's take Jane and Sarah. Similar backgrounds, growing up in poverty , not many prospects, but they worked hard ,studied hard ,went to uni.

Then at a critical time at uni, Sarah got raped, got pregnant, got marched into an abortion. She crashed and burned massively, severe mental breakdown, no understanding ,no support ,no help.

Jane was lucky to have the right circumstances and no traumatic /disruptive events to keep studying and get her qualifications and then keep flying high.

Sarah was extremely unlucky to "fail" uni and get no qualifications . That does not negate her hard work before. It does not negate her hard work after to simply keep going, even if she ended up with a (poorly paid) job rather than a career.

Luck plays a part in everything. From genetics, to intellectual ability, to disabilities, to home life/environment, to that one teacher that believes in you/inspires you/encourages you, to that one lucky break, to being in the right place at the right time and so on.

If you need to tell yourself it's all down to your hard work because you need that validation, fair enough. Just don't gleefully shout it out to others ,while insulting them at the same time and showing how much better you are. That kind of validation is not ok. You're not better, you are luckier.

Absolutely nailed it! Brilliant post. 🙌

Luck plays a role far more than people would like to believe.

Floatingvoternolandinsight · 29/05/2024 17:42

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 29/05/2024 16:10

It's not that people don't acknowledge the "hard work " part. Most people actually do. They also celebrate and respect that.

It's the insistence that luck played absolutely no part in it and all it took was that hard work. It's comments like "unwilling ", "lazy", "victim mentality ", "personal responsibility ".

I'm not successful,but I'm ok. However ,many people with my background are nowhere near ok. Mental health issues, drug addicts, even dead (either by suicide or otherwise). I am ok because I got lucky in certain things.

Let's take Jane and Sarah. Similar backgrounds, growing up in poverty , not many prospects, but they worked hard ,studied hard ,went to uni.

Then at a critical time at uni, Sarah got raped, got pregnant, got marched into an abortion. She crashed and burned massively, severe mental breakdown, no understanding ,no support ,no help.

Jane was lucky to have the right circumstances and no traumatic /disruptive events to keep studying and get her qualifications and then keep flying high.

Sarah was extremely unlucky to "fail" uni and get no qualifications . That does not negate her hard work before. It does not negate her hard work after to simply keep going, even if she ended up with a (poorly paid) job rather than a career.

Luck plays a part in everything. From genetics, to intellectual ability, to disabilities, to home life/environment, to that one teacher that believes in you/inspires you/encourages you, to that one lucky break, to being in the right place at the right time and so on.

If you need to tell yourself it's all down to your hard work because you need that validation, fair enough. Just don't gleefully shout it out to others ,while insulting them at the same time and showing how much better you are. That kind of validation is not ok. You're not better, you are luckier.

The people who seem to need validation are those that are triggered by the term 'hard work' and yet happy to passive aggressively snipe about others being 'lucky'.

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 29/05/2024 17:52

@Floatingvoternolandinsight
Hard work is a truth.
Luck is a truth not a snipe.

The difference is , to do well in life(whatever form that takes), you need both.
Acknowledging that doesn't take away from your hard work. If you think that, that's the need for validation.

Like I said, my life/achievements are nothing to write home about. Some people even pity me or think it's awful. It did take work to get here ironically.I can still acknowledge that I got lucky in so many , many ways. I can acknowledge that many , many people that didn't end up as ok as me did not have my lucky breaks and instead more trauma, more setbacks, more kicking while they were down. So much so, they didn't manage to get back up.

LuciferRising · 29/05/2024 17:54

*Then at a critical time at uni, Sarah got raped, got pregnant, got marched into an abortion. She crashed and burned massively, severe mental breakdown, no understanding ,no support ,no help.

Jane was lucky to have the right circumstances and no traumatic /disruptive events to keep studying and get her qualifications and then keep flying high*

Love how the woman in this example was 'lucky' not to get raped. Is that what it is? We're winning at life when we're not raped?

Floatingvoternolandinsight · 29/05/2024 18:02

LuciferRising · 29/05/2024 17:54

*Then at a critical time at uni, Sarah got raped, got pregnant, got marched into an abortion. She crashed and burned massively, severe mental breakdown, no understanding ,no support ,no help.

Jane was lucky to have the right circumstances and no traumatic /disruptive events to keep studying and get her qualifications and then keep flying high*

Love how the woman in this example was 'lucky' not to get raped. Is that what it is? We're winning at life when we're not raped?

Tall poppies, Misery Top Trumps... Lucky old Jane. You couldn't make this shit up. Well clearly they can...

Its always an average person being measuring against an extreme example and found lacking for not just curling up into ball. Yes resilience is a filthy, filthy word!

LuciferRising · 29/05/2024 18:05

I guess we blame women for being unlucky when they are raped.

YoureALizardHarry11 · 29/05/2024 18:08

Floatingvoternolandinsight · 29/05/2024 18:02

Tall poppies, Misery Top Trumps... Lucky old Jane. You couldn't make this shit up. Well clearly they can...

Its always an average person being measuring against an extreme example and found lacking for not just curling up into ball. Yes resilience is a filthy, filthy word!

Edited
Show quote history

But your level of resilience is also down to luck in terms of your genetics and your upbringing, your support network. Just because someone copes with adversity better than someone else it doesn’t make one person ‘less’ than the next. Resilience in itself is about luck.

Floatingvoternolandinsight · 29/05/2024 18:15

YoureALizardHarry11 · 29/05/2024 18:08

But your level of resilience is also down to luck in terms of your genetics and your upbringing, your support network. Just because someone copes with adversity better than someone else it doesn’t make one person ‘less’ than the next. Resilience in itself is about luck.

Show quote history

Resilience is not fixed, nor stable nor is it only available to millionaires

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 29/05/2024 18:16

LuciferRising · 29/05/2024 18:05

I guess we blame women for being unlucky when they are raped.

Please do expand on that statement and tell me exactly how you got to that conclusion from what I said.

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 29/05/2024 18:19

Resilience is not fixed, nor stable nor is it only available to millionaires

Who is talking about millionaires? I definitely wasn't.

Resilience is the same as hard work . Yay you!

Smurf1993 · 29/05/2024 18:19

Floatingvoternolandinsight · 29/05/2024 18:02

Tall poppies, Misery Top Trumps... Lucky old Jane. You couldn't make this shit up. Well clearly they can...

Its always an average person being measuring against an extreme example and found lacking for not just curling up into ball. Yes resilience is a filthy, filthy word!

Edited
Show quote history

Resilience is a filthy word indeed!

I have suffered with stage 4 endometriosis since 13, been through 3 major surgeries for it, nearly lost several jobs through not heing able to cope with the chronic pain, had a total mental breakdown while going through 5 cycles of IVF yet still kept going, went to work despite wanting to die and just kept going, because giving up and ending up jobless and homeless is not an option.

I have a successful career that I worked hard for, a beautiful large house to raise my baby in that I fought bloody hard to have, horses out the back and a nice stable savings account and I worked my fingers to the bone for it on days I could hardly stand from pain to earn it.

So I don't buy the "I'm lucky nothing shit happened to me in my life" trope. My life has been difficult, painful and traumatic, but I made it through resilience and hard work. Oh and I was born in a council flat to a single mother and inherited nothing so I wasn't given it on a plate, nor was I lucky to have it drop into my lap because I had an easy life! It was just hard work, determination, putting in the hours to get my education, tgen working for free to get experience so I could get the job I wanted with my degree and sheer resilience. As demonstrated by the fact I ended up in a much better place than my siblings and friends who started in the same place than me and have had no sickness to contend with at all.

But no one can accept that here can they, its just self defeating attitudes like be grateful nothing bad happened to you!! Except lots of bad things happened to me and I made it anyway, so why did they give up when I didn't?

Thats the real question here! Why do people give up when circumstances are bad, then get mad at people who didn't give up? The difference between them and people who are successful is not luck, it's resilience!

Floatingvoternolandinsight · 29/05/2024 18:21

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 29/05/2024 18:19

Resilience is not fixed, nor stable nor is it only available to millionaires

Who is talking about millionaires? I definitely wasn't.

Resilience is the same as hard work . Yay you!

Only to an arsehole, oh wait...

YoureALizardHarry11 · 29/05/2024 18:22

Floatingvoternolandinsight · 29/05/2024 18:15

Resilience is not fixed, nor stable nor is it only available to millionaires

Show quote history

The level of ignorance in this reply is absolutely staggering. It’s not only available to millionaires no, but to have high resilience you need the correct conditions which some people don’t have and don’t know how to gain access to.

If you’ve had a poor upbringing and belong to a lower SES background, can you not stretch your mind a bit to understand why some people might not be quite as resilient? Yes, some working class folks climb out of it and do well, but many don’t. It does not make you better than them, or them a lazy person who deserves their predicament. It’s attitudes like yours that people have a problem with, not success.

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