To think Brits dislike success?

[garlicmashpotatoes]

After many years of reading comments from posters on MumsNet and other forums, I get the impression that many Brits cannot stand to see people who have 'more than them' or achieve 'success' when they've worked hard to do so.

In America success is celebrated, and aspired to. Whereas in the UK it's often looked down upon.

Why?

Vile comment, you should be ashamed.

Because they're out of reach, a bit like celebs. A different world.

But there was huge resentment of Catherine Zeta Jones when she went off and married Michael Douglas. A ‘how dare you get above yourself’ kind of thing. And I didn’t follow it in detail but it seemed like there was something similar with Sheridan Smith. I don’t think being a celeb necessarily protects you. But for some reason the ex public school boys are always golden with the British public.

Yes, it is awful and uncomfortable. I do not need to be celebrated but equally I do not want to be judged negatively for my achievements. For people who come here from abroad it is really bizarre to see. I only got to realised this properly once we started to have a bit of more money. The resentment and reverse snobbery on people privately educated is exclusive to the U.K. This would of course never changed and is something I would not miss and in fact detest about living here but leaving soon anyway. My kids would study at universities abroad where they won’t be called private school twats.

No they can’t. It’s difficult for someone from a poorer background to be able to go to Uni, and stay in education for the many years it takes to qualify in medicine. But the post mentioned the majority of people who are wealthy got that way due to luck or inheritance, and I disagree. And the reality is that inheritance usually comes late in life, not when you’re younger starting out on getting a career.

I think when successful people say "hard work " they don't mean only working hard at your job. They mean working hard at studying, gaining skills, doing your research to make inform decisions, ability to postpone gratification, being willing to do unpaid overtime and taking more responsibility at work, going back to employment straight after maternity leave rather then going part time etc.

I do acknowledge there are many inequalities and disadvantages but people also have different levels of ambition and priorities. I have a very simple job now but before having children I was in management position and it was not uncommon for employees to do the minimum, to not want to learn or take extra responsibilities that come with promotion. In some circles having ambition, going to university etc will be doscouraged or mocked, even by family.

I'm not originally from UK and I have an impression tall poppy syndrome is very British thing. In my country success and education are admired and successful people as seen as lifting others up by paying taxes , supporting economy and setting an example, even if there is some natural jealousy deep down aswel, people tend to hide it better.

Yes working hard is taking literally. I have a relative who told me studying was a waste of time. Never did anything remarkable or made money and blame everyone else for it. Even though he broke his back working as a waiter and a delivery driver job. However, those were his choices.

People from well off backgrounds usually get help when younger as well.
And inheritance makes a big difference. I got none. Friends in lower paying jobs than I suddenly early retired and bought better houses due to inheritance.

@Bululu ;pads of people who get a degree are in low paying jobs.

I'm afraid I have to agree that this attitude is making this country poorer and less productive. There is is assumption that someone's success is taking away from other people when in reality success fuels economy and enriches revenue. We all depend on it.

I don't think successful people should be treated like celebrities or that we should not acknowledge that there are still many disadvantages. However in this country success is literally hated and anything that is going to harm those better off like VAT on education makes everyone happy regardless of long term consequences.

In some ways I think what’s weird about our country is that people don’t resent certain kinds of success more. There is such vast inequality, yet people seem totally comfortable with those born wealthy, like David Cameron and Boris Johnson, having cushy billets for life. There’s weirdly little resentment of the upper classes.

I don’t get it. I also find the whole old money is better than new money weird. Plenty of old money has nefarious history re that wealth but a footballer spending his cash on logos is the crude one?!

And the reality is that inheritance usually comes late in life, not when you’re younger starting out on getting a career.

I dint know anyone who didn’t get help to get on the property ladder (including me) often 6 fig help. The money tended to come from gps or parents helping as a form of early inheritance.

I dont think it is a problem with success itself just people going on about like they were the first to invent it

I'm an immigrant. I have plenty of immigrant friends who managed to get on property ladder, some near London. All started in minimum wage jobs, speaking little language, no help from parents whatsoever and many actually sent money back to their parents to support them. Some finished universities , some opened their businesses, all without "privilege ".
It comes down to cultural differences.

The VAT on private tuition issue aside, I think you've hit the nail on the head there - the assumption that someone's success is taking away from other people is at the root of it.

The whack-a-mole theory of money and how the economy works is an unshakeable element of the mindset. Instead of the potential of an ever expanding economy, there tends to be an idea of a fixed amount of prosperity and advancement available, and it is rationed out, so if one person gets some there's less to go around for everyone else.

Why the lack of respect?

And why do you assume Gary in his Jag has earned his money at the expense of someone else?

I take it you don't actually know many Americans.

The answer to your question OP is envy, it's as simple as that. I see it time and again in many, many, MN posts.

‘@Bululu ;pads of people who get a degree are in low paying”

Yes, you need to have a plan and maximise your possibilities with what you study. This person was lazy and being lazy made life much worse. Studying is not a waste of time. My experience is much different and even if you are low paid you tried. The low paid is also a problem here in the US to contrast is much better. Also, the taxes and how expensive it is here is a factor too along with the reliance on government to live.

This is also why the Tories are the boogeyman because they want people to not rely on the government too much. However, they end up being just the same because the majority do not seem to want that. Let’s say the safety net is a bit of a life style. It is not doing this country many favours.

The word celebrate is probably wrong it is encourage or acknowledge the ones who achieve or do better. Here it is vilified, judge and punish those who do better. The post about Gary down the road just an example.

My comment was based on interactions with folk from the USA, online and in real life.
I take it you always assume?

I don't envy anyone tbh, and I'm sure others feel the same. We only ever see the surface of people's lives, unless we know them really, really well, and sometimes there's a lot of pain or unhappiness underneath - whether you're apparently 'successful or not'. I don't begrudge folk their successes, even if they're not things I would see as sucess in my own life.

I couldn't be much more british in terms of my upbringing, experiences and circles but I feel pretty much the opposite to this.

Pretty sure I could give you a run for your money. BUT It still wouldn't give me the right to minimise another person who has pulled themselves out of poverty, without handouts and dismiss that achievement as luck. As for luck, if we apply your 'logic' you are writing on a forum in a country that has a welfare state, educates women, and is not currently at war. You have won the lottery compared to many.

Depends what you mean by "success" here really. I find the US system of thinking that rich people are just "better" people is a bit of a morally valid culture to be honest.

But there is surely something in between? I don't think rich people are "better" but I believe success requires extra effort and many sacrifices, privilege or not.

Like I said I'm not originally from UK or USA and I find the hate of success here sickening and completely counterproductive. Successful people pay a lot of tax, create jobs and fuel economy, they are not taking away from someone else. If all higher earners and businesses disappeared we would all fall into poverty, joblessness and high taxation.

That's why success should be appreciated as it's something that requires encouragement and doesn't come easily.

Many people on here talk about inequalities but my experience is people in UK never push for leveling up policies like universal affordable childcare or easier access to higher education.

There is a reason leveling down policies like VAT on private schools are so popular in UK Instead. I've never seen anything like that anywhere else.