The reaction to National Service on here

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Many European countries (including Scandinavian countries) have NS. Are they ‘ridiculous’? Or are their much-coveted-by-Mumsnet-users communities better because of their sense of individual responsibility and contribution?

If 24 days (that’s how long it would be in total) of delivering prescriptions or volunteering as a hospital guide has you talking about human rights violations and Nazi Germany, then it’s very clear that you’re so pampered a bit of NS would do you good.

Everyone on here expects the world in terms of a ’village’, generous benefits, a caring society, but wants to do fuck all to contribute to it and think the notion of them having to do ANYTHING for anyone else is insane.

It’s nuts!

Yes someone should compensate me, for loss of a staff member. I employ people, I pay my taxes. The people I employ are working towards their future, gaining experience and you expect them to give up paid employment to earn nothing and at he same time for the employer to just say to hell with my business just take my staff. I was a volunteer for many organizations for 15 years and fully understand the benefits that can be had from it. But and the but is I chose to do it I wasn't forced to do it. I was not inconveniencing my employer , I wasn't leaving myself without an income. Some people actually need the money they have coming in some employers have employees because their business needs them. So no i am not one of the compensate me brigade but I do love in the real world

What like the welsh bac in wales for 16-18 qualification already do?

Your suggestion isn't what they are proposing in any way shape or form currently.

This is why it remind me of Brexit so many people making their own shit up and insisting it must be that - or it will be that at in end or their version would be better. Tory party be vague - let population fill in blanks - it's worked before.

But how would you feel if your child with a part time job in for example the care sector had to do this additional service on top of that or even having to miss one weekend per month of their usual care job in order to do something that probably won't be as useful.

Clearly there will be exemptions or deferments for certain situations.

We do not know what exemptions would be in place for people with conditions which mean they could not participate.

It is also not known whether people in full-time education or employment would be compelled to take part, or whether they would be able to defer completion.

Your quote about exemptions is from an older article. The most recent article lists a whole lot of what ifs and says no exemption, no deferral.

I've seen other quotes from minsters saying there would be no exceptions.

Like the parents will be fine - parents won't be fined - give strong impression no one bothered to think though anything.

They then say oh commission will look at detail later - so no-one has any idea what this scheme is or likely to be - just like Brexit sell idea to a section of population based on nothing concrete but wishful thinking and then work details out later which may be completely different.

What ages will have to participate?
Under Tory plans, school leavers aged 18 would be required to participate in the scheme.

Will 18-year-olds at university be exempt or allowed to defer?
No. Everyone will have to do National Service and fit it around their lives. There will be very limited deferments and none for university students.

What if the young person has a job?
There will be no exemption for those who are in work.

What if they are on a gap year abroad?This will not be a reason for exemption and those abroad will be expected to do their National Service alongside any travel.

What if they already work in the emergency services, prison or care sectors?
The Royal Commission will look at exemptions, including where people are already working in the military. But the starting point remains that all people serve.

What if the young person has unpaid caring commitments?
The Royal Commission will aim to ensure everyone can take part.
Weekend placements could be within the NHS, fire or police service, or with charities supporting older people or tackling loneliness.

Will the royal children be expected to take part?
Yes – everyone will be expected to undergo National Service.
Prince George, 10, Princess Charlotte, nine, and Prince Louis, six, would not be exempt, the Conservative party told the Telegraph.

Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie also have young children who would be eligible to take part once they reach 18 as well as Prince Edward’s son, the Earl of Wessex, who is 16.

Will the scheme apply in Northern Ireland?
Yes – although the Royal Commission will consider how to manage any sensitivities surrounding National Service.

What if not enough people apply for the military placement?
The Tories have argued similar schemes in other countries have a very high take-up rate, suggesting they don’t expect this to be a problem.

Or, more likely, have to do a weekend "volunteering" in a care home. Who benefits from that? Likewise those with caring responsibilities at home, if they are forced to do a weekend who take up the slack that weekend? A "volunteer"? Where's the logic in that?

The whole idea has desperation written all over it and not thought through at all.

In many countries they not only send the 18-21 years olds to 1 year of military service but also they take men and women in some professions for regular 1 month training every few years.
They people and companies got used to it. As the military training of a reserve it is more frequent now, in Poland during military exercises, the recruited employee or entrepreneur will receive remuneration and compensation for lost income. Contractors will only receive wages. Companies can apply for compensation for replacement costs. I cannot imagine it would be different in UK

I just think its a shit, expensive idea. Plenty of kids work weekends anyway. I worked about 20 hours a week around college at this age and on weekends. Do we really have the money for this, when what we need is housing, better education and infrastructure? It's a weird thing to spend money on when so many vital services are in the gutter.

Plus I think it would be utterly shit for productivity, given that most of the kids would not want to be there, which is another big issue in this country.

So yeah, it's a terrible idea that is typical of a party which refuses to come up with any compassionate ideas, unless it helps people over 65. They deserve to lose.

I thought the Tories were all about neoliberal capitalism and the free market. How does forcing people to do unpaid work fall into that?

One month every few years (presuming it is paid) is far, far easier for employers and employees alike to manage than the disruption of one weekend every month unpaid.

This is already fairly standard and has been for decades - (except it is 2 hours)

Companies can apply for compensation for replacement costs. I cannot imagine it would be different in UK

Tell me you have not read the proposals in full without telling me you have not read the proposals in full

@Comefromaway I don’t see that as a problem - 25 days in a year isn’t much in the scheme of things. DofE gold silver and bronze take up far far more time than that. Again the additional time spent would have been another boost to their CV’s.

My two who worked part time in care homes weren’t undertaking actual care duties as such, they were making cups of tea, playing board games, taking the residents for walks around the garden etc and generally providing company. My daughter did this every weekend and most of her holidays throughout uni.

Absolutely this. Genuinely helpful and encourage social cohesion rather than further decisiveness.

@Teddleshon you says “worked” so were they being paid in the care home or were they volunteering?

Perhaps it isn't much time for your children, but for many of the young people I know it is a huge amount of time and money on top of their other responsibilities.

It's wrong that an 18 year old should have to work to help pay the family gas bill or to be able to eat at university but that's a whole other thing. It's also wrong that an 18 year old should not be able to take up a place at uni in another city because there is no one else to help care for their disabled parent but that is the reality for many young carers.

Yes, it's not clear in the slightest.

@Coughsweet The two who worked in care homes were paid but as I said, they never carried out anything resembling intimate or medical care.

As a family we have also always done a lot of volunteering on top of any work commitments and still do.

Given the latest figures show that over half of teenagers are spending more than 4 hours a day on social media I really don’t think 2 days a month volunteering for one year is beyond the pale.

None of that is being proposed here. No remuneration, no planning, no common sense.

When you live in a country where your own flag is apparently too racist for local authorities to display you cannot ask people to do 'national service'.

As for compulsory voluntary service, I know a fair few people born abroad who were sent to this country by their wealthy parents so they could avoid their own form of National Service, so if you think anyone with any money would find their child doing it unless they actually wanted to, you are a fool.

This country has no loyalty to people born here and shows that every day.
It cannot expect anyone born here to show any loyalty to it in return.

If anyone made me do any such thing, I can guarantee they'd regret it.
I'd make sure every second I was forced to do something would cost the state money and would actively sabotage any attempt for the state to benefit off my enforced labour.
I'd support any child of mine to either be out of the country or sabotaging the scheme too.

If you are something like the fire service or ambulance service you really don't want resentful teenagers who have been forced to be there by whichever slimy politicians are in power then in any role at all.

I suspect the actual staff there (who of course will be cut because of the projections of all this so called free help they'll be supposedly getting) won't enjoy having to oversee a bunch of teenagers who don't want to be there and don't care about whatever they are being forced to show up for either.

The military aren't going to want a load of idiots who don't want to be there either.

If a person wants to volunteer, they can go right ahead and do it now.
If they don't, then leave them alone.

God help the country if we go to war.
It won't be like the second world war in it together.
This would be every man, woman and child for themselves.

💕

The second world war wasn't "all in it together" either and was very much everyone for themselves. That's what a war means, it's not dances with GIs at the village hall and everyone growing their own veg and keeping chickens.