The reaction to National Service on here

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Many European countries (including Scandinavian countries) have NS. Are they ‘ridiculous’? Or are their much-coveted-by-Mumsnet-users communities better because of their sense of individual responsibility and contribution?

If 24 days (that’s how long it would be in total) of delivering prescriptions or volunteering as a hospital guide has you talking about human rights violations and Nazi Germany, then it’s very clear that you’re so pampered a bit of NS would do you good.

Everyone on here expects the world in terms of a ’village’, generous benefits, a caring society, but wants to do fuck all to contribute to it and think the notion of them having to do ANYTHING for anyone else is insane.

It’s nuts!

Some were, some weren’t; a mixed bag like everything. It suits narratives on here to pretend everyone was always awful self serving, or that everyone was amazing and self sacrificing. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle

The second world war wasn't "all in it together" either and was very much everyone for themselves.

I remember my Gran saying as much. She always scoffed as the chocolate box view that everyone suddenly became super collaborative and selfless. She said everyone was on the take to get as much out of it as they could

OP you are ignoring the obvious question. What is the point of it?
We do not need military national service. The Scandinavians have it because of the real risk of invasion. If we were at a real risk of the French invading us, I would support this. But that is a ridiculous idea. Our armed services are largely fighting wars in foreign countries. We do not need 18 year olds in the UK giving up a weekend every month.

The second purpose could be volunteering to support our public services. You suggest youngsters picking up and delivering prescriptions. I would not want them doing this. The risk is too many don't bother. They say they have delivered the prescriptions when they have not for example.

In every day life it is getting paid and the possibility of getting sacked that makes people do jobs like this. And it is choosing to volunteer that makes people fulfill volunteer roles. In this scenario you have nearer. Just a bunch of 18 year olds who do not want to be there, whose parents do not want them to be there, and could not be trusted to do what they are asked to do. It is a nightmare situation of no benefit to anyone.

And in all or at least most countries with national service, if you do not do it you risk being imprisoned or sanctioned through the courts. The PM has also said no one would be sent to prison. It is unenforceable.

If you want to encourage more volunteering, look at an enhanced scheme, perhaps under Duke of Edinburgh, to encourage additional volunteering for those 18 plus.

@BlackbeardsToast there are always those who do help others out. Volunteer, set up local community projects, and help those in need. And those who are on the take. You get both.
We saw this for ourselves during covid.

Maybe - but that's what she said!

Would they still be ‘allowed’ to do NS if they’ve failed their GCSEs, or rather don’t have the required grades to get onto many college courses, apprenticeships?. Often those who haven’s done well at school thrive in other areas! If NS is a requirement for our young people, then there should be more options for those wishing to do vocational courses, more college courses available where learning is entirely different and doesn’t just rely on one test at the end of secondary school! If they’re good enough for NS without qualifications, then they’re good enough to be given FAR more opportunities than what is currently out there!

Let 18 year olds have a wider option’s pool, just like their parents and great grandparents did!

@Teddleshon perhaps when they are at school but at university it gets more difficult.
My DCs have done a lot of volunteering - DC1 has done far more than suggested amount (hard physical work out in all weathers working with people and animals) and started aged 12 but she stopped aged 16 as she had a lot of other commitments. She has a job lined up while at university but she doesn’t know what shifts she’ll be able to commit to until she gets her uni timetable and she’s hoping her employer will provide some flexibility as her uni timetable changes over the year (her course has a lot of contact time). She’s a bit stressed about that as it is. She’s also really looking forward to doing a lot of sport but she’ll have to work out how to fit in training and game time.

I don’t disagree that volunteering is beneficial but I don’t see why this specific cohort is being targeted rather than the population as at whole and at a time of life where for some it is very inconvenient.

I agree that we should all have to do it, think it could make a big difference collectiviely in many ways.

Am I correct in thinking that none of these other countries expect 1st year university students to do national service and certainly not alongside their studies?

I saw this today and it really got to me

It's the bit about those already in jobs that has angered me. They work full-time, pay taxes like the rest of us but have no say in how they spend 1 weekend out of 4.

That looks made up if I’m honest.

It's not made up. I posted it earlier. It's a screenshot from The Telegraph newspaper online.

And considering they have always been seen as a Tory newspaper traditionally!

I saw that in the Telegraph too which tends to be very supportive of the Tory party, so cannot think they'd make it up to make them look bad. Even though it does, rather.

I get the sense you aren’t from the UK, perhaps the poster is expressing an opinion, informed by actually living that experience, the UK now as opposed to 20-30 years ago has one of the highest levels of wealth inequality in the world, these details can’t be after thoughts. Perhaps we don’t all want to be Global citizens that think the same, have the same cultural values as others and the principle of NS comes into that as Britain has never really been a culturally obedient society. It isn’t bad like you are suggesting, it isn’t good, it just is what it is!

This policy is really a manifestation of backward looking ideologies that want a future that replicates a past that never really was I.e National Service made young people good citizens or worse made men of boys (someone has actually posted that on this thread). To focus on the past like this eschews optimism and it definitely is the politics of being on the edge of the abyss, which is just lazy and irrational if you think about it.

I have a 17 year old DS he is busy doing what he wants to do, just like I was at that age. I sincerely think if we had some kind of revisiting of music, art and books, some nurturing of the soul then we would all be better people anyway!

You mean Citizenship class? It is not defence preparation. Look at curiculum. Totally different subject. No first aid, no topography, no service wtc

I presume you've never had to spend time trying to find work for volunteers to do. How many posts are going to be needed in the NHS etc etc etc in order to ensure that the teenagers are safe, and have work to do? You can't just grab someone and give them something to do. A lot of the time they're going to need DBS at the minimum.

When my son is 18 (when he is 16 in fact) he will be expected to have a weekend job. Can he bank the 4 hours of volunteering he does already, or will he also have to give that up if it clashes with the Governments idea of volunteering?

Its being criticised as it's not even slightly thought out. It's a headline and nothing else.

@YourPinkDog Please read the scope of the proposal national service. Sunak is not proposing a military service as it is in e.g Scandinavian countries. Sunak proposes a. community service for most of 18 years old and b. 30k will have specialist training ( not military)

@YourPinkDog Please read the scope of the proposal national service. Sunak is not proposing a military service as it is in e.g Scandinavian countries. Sunak proposes a. community service for most of 18 years old and b. 30k will have specialist training ( not military)

Sunak is an idiot.
Having a load of 18 year olds on forced volunteering would be a nightmare. Lots of them would not even turn up. Lots would go missing half way through. Others would be skiving and joking about. And a small number who actually wanted to volunteer would do a good job.

No, he's proposing an unworkable, expensive and totally useless thing which will benefit nobody except those who resent the young.

Sunak is guaranteeing that no one young will vote for him.

Can’t help thinking some Tory donors are going to benefit from the free Labour somewhere

Practically speaking I would have massively struggled with this at age 18. I studied Monday to Friday. I babysat a couple of nights a week, worked full days both Saturday and Sunday saving for university. I studied a lot so I could get into my chosen course. I also attended a gym / physio in the evenings to try and cure an injury I had.

point is- I was busy. No time for volunteering at all!

Some 18 year olds will have families and homes of their own to maintain. Lots will have to work to support themselves and others. Lots will have uni/ college and exams to study for.

It’s not a super outrageous suggestion for some people who are at a loose end to volunteer. It’s just not something that would have worked for me at that age.

The scope suggests the majority of 18 years olds will spend one weekend in four working for free, regardless of whether they already have a paid job and need to work to eat, having caring responsibilities, are doing exams or are not even in the country. 18 year olds will mostly be very negatively impacted as will the general population as it will cost money that should be spend elsewhere. The people who will benefit will be those that have received dodgy lucrative contracts from their dodgy Tory mates to organise it. I can see lawyers making money out of this ill thought out idea in the future too.