The reaction to National Service on here

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Many European countries (including Scandinavian countries) have NS. Are they ‘ridiculous’? Or are their much-coveted-by-Mumsnet-users communities better because of their sense of individual responsibility and contribution?

If 24 days (that’s how long it would be in total) of delivering prescriptions or volunteering as a hospital guide has you talking about human rights violations and Nazi Germany, then it’s very clear that you’re so pampered a bit of NS would do you good.

Everyone on here expects the world in terms of a ’village’, generous benefits, a caring society, but wants to do fuck all to contribute to it and think the notion of them having to do ANYTHING for anyone else is insane.

It’s nuts!

The biggest mistake they've made is calling it National Service (or is it the press that have called it that?).

If they'd just said it's an additional year of mandatory vocational/voluntary service for 18 year olds at the end of their education I suspect people will have accepted it more.

Lots of questions though - presumably it would start at the end of the school year in which they turn 18, so end of A-levels. What happens to those that want to go to Uni? I guess they could opt for the 1 weekend a month voluntary scheme, but I can't imagine the universities will be too happy with a potentially large drop in starters when their cohort have to do NS.

Unless being placed into a role where they see a career, I imagine the majority of 18 year olds would opt for the one weekend a month scheme. How many places realistically are going to have the infrastructure and staffing to have a voluntary squad in that would need training/inductions, etc, for one 1 weekend's work a month. Obviously they'd have people in every weekend, but on a rota basis, but is it practical?!

Will there be exemptions for those 18 year olds with children?

Where I work, I see a lot of antisocial behaviour from teenagers and a massive lack of respect from both those teenagers and, ultimately, their parents also (who they've learned it from). There has been a massive sense of entitlement from so many people since the pandemic ended (I went on a holiday last year where the behaviour of many of the Brits abroad was atrocious and downright embarrassing), so I agree something needs to be done to stop the attitude spreading.

I suspect it's a moot point though as it is not exactly an election winner. When it was announced, at first I didn't even believe my DH because I was thinking "surely no-one would think this is an election winning manifesto point"!

Yes they are. But the first reaction always seem to be that one.

Yeah, it is entirely different.

As well as what you mention, the cohort aren't the same and neither is what you want them to do.

It probably would never occur to Rishi Sunak that many 18 year olds already spend their weekends doing paid work because they need the money and would be at a massive disadvantage if they couldn’t continue to do this.

That's the impression I have they haven't though through what 18 year old lives can and do look like in the UK - or knock on effects like those businesses employing 18 year olds.

Only money I seen being mention focused on the military option. I don't think it occurred to them some kids live in very rural areas with very limited transport options so could incur prohibitive costs volunteering even once a month- as it's not the lifestyle they live.

why would dyslexia or dyspraxia and high functioning autism stopped them from national service? Sunak didn't announce military service for 18 years olds as it is in many other countries ( for 2 -3 years older). He announced national service that:

It would be made up of two broad streams for 18-year-olds to choose from:

• Community volunteering: Spending one weekend every month - which equates to 25 days over a 12-month period - volunteering with organisations such as the NHS, fire service, ambulance, search and rescue, and critical local infrastructure
• Military training: Applying for one of up to 30,000 “selective” military placements reserved for teenagers deemed the “brightest and the best” in areas like logistics, cyber security, procurement or civil response operations over a year-long period

The vast majority of 18-year-olds would not take part in any military training at all. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c988jdxl02vo

Did you miss the severe anxiety disorder?

What Yalta wrote was one anecdote. The data suggests otherwise: https://ifs.org.uk/publications/housing-quality-and-affordability-lower-income-households#:~:text=filled%20the%20gap.-,For%20low%2Dincome%20adults%20born%20in%20the%201960s%20or%20before,important%20for%20two%20key%20reasons

@WoshPank
and neither is what you want them to do.

Exactly the same + expanded. The community service in fire brigade, NHS etc would be included
Defense Preparation was the subject which I had for 4 years at school. The scope of teaching included broadly understood civil defence, support to community systems, methods of protection against various threats and preparation for dealing with disasters. We were also trained in first aid. In addition, the subject included typically military topics, general information about types of weapons (including shooting training, throwing grenade etc) and the rules of military service, and some knowledge of international law in the field of armed conflicts and topography.

It was a very useful subject.

@scarecrowded not every person with dyslexia, dyspraxia and high-functioning ASD ( those who were named) has a severe anxiety disorder. Nobody would drag to any national service people who have mental illnesses.

@HiddenBooks there's no such thing as 'mandatory voluntary service'. It's either one or the other, it cannot be both.

Similar projects in other countries offer a properly funded and planned experience which benefits the young people. It is expensive. In those countries, people get something back from their government. None of that applies to this plan. It is a dog whistle to the part of the population that is suffering from toxic nostalgia about 'the good old days'. It is punitive and assumes young people are all feral menaces. It is badly thought out and despite the cost it is being done on the cheap.

If a Finland or Sweden style model were being proposed, it would be great. But that isn't the case.

Will there be exemptions for those 18 year olds with children?

No, no exemptions for those with children. (Or other caring responsibilities) "All will serve"

If a Finland or Sweden style model were being proposed, it would be great. But that isn't the case.

UK is an island. Different needs. In Finland it will be a military service. People will need to know how to use rifles and grenades. They can be invaded by Russia any time. Just few ago Russia fancied changes to the border line on the Baltic sea. In UK civilians have to prepare for the threat from the air only. The sea protection is managed by professional soldiers.

Quote: The vast majority of 18-year-olds would not take part in any military training at all. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c988jdxl02vo

Again, this is not at all what the government are proposing. It's just not.

School finishes at 16 here, and while some 16-18 year olds do stay on in a sixth form attached to the school, most don't. If you want 4 years, that means starting it at 12 and even if you'd confine it only to the oldest, it's 15 and 16. That is nothing like any of the multiple versions of this we've heard from the Tories. They haven't mentioned schools at all.

If you want it to be part of schooling, it also becomes at least partially the responsibility of the education sector. That's a whole new set of problems, as you'll know if you've ever seen any of the teacher threads on here.

Exactly, apart from the additional burden on schools I don't think anyone would be objecting if it was something to be done as part of the school/college curriculum during the school week between 14-18 (though how it would work with those going into full time work at 16 I don't know.)

It's the fact it will be just as most young people are heading off to uni or into full time employment and it will be totally inflexible, no deferment. So an 18 year old could well be studying/working for up to 40 hours per week in order to be able to afford to, you know live, plus have to do this on top at the weekend.

The Tories must hate young people a lot.

Yeah - sorry - that was clunky and obviously wrong. Mandatory work in the community was what I meant.

Still think it will never happen though!

@WoshPank

so what are you suggesting? staying as it is because everything is too difficult and a a society completely not prepared for the war that is looming and ecological disasters in the longer term?

I think the media should start with preparing people mentally for the situation we are in. Most of the society after 70 years of peace is detached from the reality of the fact that war in Europe is not something of the past but quite imminent.
Supposed to be a campaign to be ready but many people are in denial or haven't heard about it: https://www.ft.com/content/002490f0-13db-4234-b609-e8a539b28447

No, I'm suggesting that your idea about introducing a new programme in schools is completely different to any of the things the Tories have proposed over the last few days.

That's a separate issue to what anyone thinks of either of them.

Let us also remember that many, many schools and colleges already have a community service/volunteering/work experience element to them.

Hmmm... well that would clearly have to change, if not for those with their own children, if childcare options were available. But who would look after those that young carers look after while they're off on their NS?

There will be plenty of 18 year olds who physically couldn't do it too. My sibling has severe learning difficulties (i.e. is now 42 but has the capacity of an 18 month old), so anyone like her would have to be excluded.

Having seen what is available in terms of care for those with SEND it would be nigh on impossible to arrange any cover if there wasn't any other family support available.

Again, I can't see it happening and in the very unlikely event of the tories getting back in, there's no way it would happen by 2025.

Sunak was probably inspired by the fact that in many European countries it will be a service for 18-21 years old as it was during Cold War. Also, those countries need civilians for the landline defence.

something should be done and in my opinion it is even too late now.

Agree that National Service is a terrible name but I really like the concept.

All four of my children have gold DofE and all four have had part time jobs in the sort of sectors that are being talked about such as elderly care. Both these factors have helped them all enormously in so many areas and they all think it’s a great idea.

They'd still have to do the volunteering at 18 - one weekend a month - so even if they are parents - so may well need childcare - if no family help may well need paying if they can get it - or if they are responsible for adult care - then SS may well need to step in with paid help.

It's additional burden on 18 year olds who already aren't enjoy the carefree lifestyle so many of the Tory proponents kids are.

@SmileyHappyPeopleInTheSun that is why I suggest to include it in secondary school program from y7 till GCSE.
Something has to be done in preparation to hardships ahead of us

I’ve been saying ‘bring back National Service’ for years so it’s a hurrah from me.

Fuck knows how it would be made to work and as the Tories are unlikely to get re-elected it’s a moot point.