The reaction to National Service on here

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Many European countries (including Scandinavian countries) have NS. Are they ‘ridiculous’? Or are their much-coveted-by-Mumsnet-users communities better because of their sense of individual responsibility and contribution?

If 24 days (that’s how long it would be in total) of delivering prescriptions or volunteering as a hospital guide has you talking about human rights violations and Nazi Germany, then it’s very clear that you’re so pampered a bit of NS would do you good.

Everyone on here expects the world in terms of a ’village’, generous benefits, a caring society, but wants to do fuck all to contribute to it and think the notion of them having to do ANYTHING for anyone else is insane.

It’s nuts!

Agreed

It's picking on the young I have a problem with. They will face a far more difficult life than those aged 40+ have so far. If we need this for the community, surely it should involve the whole community. But that wouldn't be popular with their voters.

Why doesn’t she get help with childcare? Government pay up to 85%

You're not comparing like with like. Free uni, decent public services, excellent maternity packages, decent housing etc etc. are the Tories offering that in exchange? No? Thought not.

It's like tax, I've no objection to paying tax, paying more tax, if I think it's going to be spent properly. This government just takes and gives nothing back. It needs to work both ways

https://x.com/monkemma/status/1795011589512249642?s=46&t=XxVwBsRXf-wP03IdqmuUJQ

This thread explains really well why it works in other countries but wouldn’t work here…

I’m not voting Tory (don’t know who our candidates are yet but the Tories are not an option for me) but the entitlement on here versus what you should do for society is absolutely mad! It doesn’t even make sense - if you expect a lot from society it’s because someone else is doing something - yet you shouldn’t..? How does that even work.

So do the people criticising this plan think the post-war introduction of NS was also wrong/ridiculous? That was introduced by his holiness the pope of the NHS, clement Attlee. Was he wrong and if not, why not?

I think it's fine it can be done after A Levels. How is once a month a lot?
I think people in full time education who turn up for their courses should be exempt and those with full time employment. Can't be Mickey Mouse courses - they must lead to employment really or NS.

Wow. How inconvenient to give up something you enjoy for a short time for the greater good.

You're not paying for other people's benefits, you work (and benefit from your salary) and pay taxes. The government then decides what to spend those taxes on, including welfare. This is not even remotely similar to forcing 18yr olds to do unpaid labour.

Myself, my DP and plenty of our family and friends started volunteering at 16.

There are already lots of schemes in place including some set up by royalty that allow you to help others in your community. The government themselves rely on volunteers for the criminal justice system. Kids and adults who do Scouts, Guides and different sports rely on volunteers heavily.

This batshit idea is as good as Cameron's "big society". He didn't realise there are lots of volunteers of different ages doing different things already and the money charities use including getting government grants is to pay for infrastructure e.g. mini buses to take pensioners from A to B. He thought it was something that could be done cheaper. Businesses will give community groups money if they have it and people volunteering will self fund things e.g. not claim back low travel expenses, walking/cycling to the location, but ultimately some community groups need government grants.

This National Service idea is unfunded.

Whether military service is for the greater good is a whole other debate thread! Or whatever ‘volunteering’ the Tories would get them doing 🤷‍♀️

All the people who think it's a great idea, I trust you'll all be devoting the same amount of time to volunteering that you're expecting from 18yr olds?

Mumsnetters…… and a whole series of senior military figures too. I assume you think they’re pampered and don’t want to contribute to society either.

Face it, the whole plan is half-baked and desperate.

many 18 year olds are quite busy trying to build a life for themselves. Most of the ones I know are putting in far more than 40 hours a week already in some combination of school, study, and work. We know this generation is facing mental health difficulties between having grown up with the pandemic and facing a pretty bleak financial future. Adding more work to their busy schedules is not going to help.

there are also concerns about the program not adapting for disability. The waiting lists for diagnosis are huge. It has also been made clear that people who have conditions they can self-manage are likely never going to move along in the diagnosis queue.

so imagine an 18yo with a physical impairment, ASD, or adhd. They have never gotten a formal diagnosis, but they have gotten by. The young adult has very carefully selected a field of study that works for them. They have very carefully selected a career path that they can manage. They have figured out transportation they can manage. They have very carefully curated a life they can manage from the moment they wake up until the moment they go to sleep. Now you have a program that says we don’t care about any of that. You have to fit into this rigid mold and volunteer in this system. People need to understand that could be the thing that takes someone from functional to non-functional, from employed to unemployed. It’s ableism at its worst. Ableism perpetrated by a system that has failed these young adults in the first place.

Sorry I meant to say the idea isn’t ridiculous. I totally agree with everything you said. People want that village without putting in any effort. There’s very few people who volunteer, people who donate blood etc, they just expect things to be there for them but never do anything to change society. Drives me potty

I don’t think it is a great idea currently; although with proper thought and development there might be something there. It’s more that the reaction to it is interesting and shows how much we’ve changed as a society since NS was last introduced (by a Labour PM).

They're hardly talking about sending kids into the trenches although you wouldn't believe that from some of the hysteria. I think it's a really good idea and no different from the model of many progressive European countries

Ain't never hoping to happen here though so not sure why people are frothing at the mouth and writing Adrian Mole esque poems

Wow give up one weekend a mo th not thatbmuch of an ask but funny how people are getting so outraged ...must be this selfishness.tou speak of OP.

Agree. There’s also a massive problem with nihilism in teens. How many threads do we see about worried parents saying their 19 year old is lying in bed gaming all day and simply threatens to kill themselves if asked to do anything? They bang on about a sense of purpose, how it’s good to have obligations and to feel you’re making a contribution. But they don’t actually want them to do it.

All political parties rely on volunteers at every election to leaflet people.

Some people like my DP, who is not a member of a political party, will leaflet just to ensure political parties that would target specific people with discriminatory practices don't elected.

I think it’s just individualism in general. Everyone is so used to being a victim and ‘validated’ now. It’s really sad

I agree so so so much it would do so many so much good. People in general these days are very self centred.

How many weekends a month do you give up?

This is interesting on the last period of NS
https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/national-service-experience#:~:text=National%20Service%20was%20introduced%20in,for%20men%20of%20military%20age.
sounds grim in many ways but there was a clear quid pro quo in terms of the skills and opportunities young people got the chance to develop.