To be suprised at Butlins and their lack of neurodiverse awareness?

[GreenPhlem]

have just left Butlins. Will hopefully never go back.

We were visiting with our autistic 3 year old grandaughter.

Not one mention of “autism friendly” shows anywhere. Every thing we attempted was too loud and in your face, even with ear defenders on granddaughter was struggling. You would have thought a place like Butlins would put on at least one autism friendly show a day but nope … nothing.

We took her to the tots disco last night - was meant to start at 6pm so we got there for 6pm knowing DGD will struggle to wait for something to happen … 6:05pm and nothing is happening - DGD getting restless and wants to leave. 6:10 the redcoat comes on and says the kids disco will start in about 15 minutes. No chance we could keep DGD happy for another 15 minutes so we had to leave. As we were leaving he said something about another show that would be happening at 7:30 unless the PJ masks photo shoot goes on for too long then that activity will be cancelled!! God forbid they miss out on money making photographs

Swimming - you now have to book a time slot. We booked 11am. 11:05 were still in a queue outside in the rain. When we eventually get in the changing rooms are so packed out (as everyone is going in and leaving at the same time) that DGD gets overwhelmed and shuts down. Nowhere quiet to take her … no thought to neurodiversity

Took her to soft play. I booked her into the toddler area as she would struggle being around the big loud hyper kids. I was told she was too tall for the toddler area and have to go into the big kids area. A small, timid autistic girl going into the big kids area with 10/11 year old kids flying around screaming and shouting?? Was never going to work so we left (DGD was already starting to have a meltdown as soon as she saw the chaos of the big kids area).

Is it just me or what?? Surely a place like Butlins should factor in that some kids may require a bit of reasonable adjustment?

If you’re still braving caravan sites have a look for sensory/autism friendly caravans. They’re private but there’s different families run them on different sites. We went to one on a haven site recently and it was lovely… van itself had a sensory room and loads of toys set up specifically and themed rooms for the kids and living area.
Haven itself had a bookable sensory room, activities did run on a bit late but was usually to allow stragglers in.. we learned to be a straggler 🤣. Beach side, loads of outdoor play spaces and day time shows weren’t as busy.. still loud but like 20 kids vs full club.

Both of mine are ND one who has severe complex needs and a wheelchair user.. phone places before hand and ask all the questions you be a pain in the arse. I always ask if it’s not busy can ds go into the smaller kids area explaining disabilities and decide if we’ll go from there for soft plays.

Butlin’s is a family holiday resort - noisy, chaotic, disorganised at times and geared towards money making. I’m sorry you have a granddaughter with additional needs, but if you wanted a holiday at a place with special facilities for autistic children, you should have found one. Yes ‘one show a day’ might not SEEM a lot to ask, but it is asking a lot
because it means Butlin’s have to exclude all the other families who are there. Will there be enough ND children each week to warrant a show a day? and how do Butlin’s possibility control for the fact NT kids might want to join in and change the environment?

I have a ND stepchild and taking her anywhere is a nightmare. Certainly we breathe a sigh of relief when places can accommodate her behaviour - but her needs are polar opposite to your GDs - she needs to be able to be loud and energetic and rampage about. I don’t think there are one size fits all ND accommodations.

@GreenPhlem

I am in two minds about this,

as i can see get other posters viewpoints on this topic in regards of Butlins,

However cause neuodivistity spectrums awareness is so common especially nowadays

then family friendly establishments i am susprised are not being encouraged or having the incentive drive to facilitate this such as often quieter times of the day, sensory space areas to relax ect,

Let's face Butlins and other establishments if they facilitate adapted this in some way whether even just one a day event neuro autustic spectrum family friendly activities,

it would make real good business sense model and make serious good money revenue sense for them for sure definitely too,

As being autustic family friendly

It would acctract more families or people who might have been put off or reluctant to vist a Butlins place etc,

Butlins you need to move with the times and adapts...

I think you need to research suitable venues that cater for your child's personality.
Places have to be profitable and in school holidays it will always be busy; they will not turn away business to make the place less full of people.
Consider libraries, films at a cinema, (take ear muffs) one on one horseriding sessions, cooking at home, walkiing around a lake or on the beach with a little friend and a ball, and ask the pool for the most desirable time slot for a shy child.

Haven’t read the entire thread but just dropping in with a bit of empathy OP. I can’t believe that many parents/grandparents/careers of ND children haven’t had at least one disaster of a day out or holiday where afterwards they have realised that it was madness to attempt that particular thing. I certainly have!

Caring for an ND child is a learning curve - sometimes you make a misjudgement and everyone has a horrible time. I only have one child and she is autistic so I don’t know anything about parenting an NT child: maybe in this regard it’s the same!

Your expectations were a bit out of whack here. Never mind - move on. You’ve learned something about what will work better next time. You sound like a wonderful grandparent!

Yes 👏🏿 really good ideas there @user1492757084 too...

YABVU. You never should have taken her. It doesn't suit her needs. More importantly You are Unreasonable for expecting them to. They cater for the masses and the masses do go.

@GreenPhlem i really feel for you . I have dc with ASD (my youngest is 3 as well) I totally get it. You booked things to try and make sure she didn’t have to wait and get overwhelmed and they didn’t stick to the booking times / activity times . I think it’s reasonable to be upset about that .

I also agree with you re the soft play - a 3 year old is still tiny and would have been supervised by you so they should have made an adjustment.

You sound lovely and are clearly wonderful supportive grandparents I wish my parents were so involved ! It hasn’t worked out this time but I really hope in future you can have a lovely peaceful break that goes well

But what would that one day event look like? There is no one size fits all when it comes to neurodiversity. What works for one person would be a nightmare for others.

other posters have said that Butlins will make reasonable adjustments around things like queuing for the pool. But these things need to be done on an individual level not a one size fits all.

Why would you take a child who struggles to regulate and is overwhelmed to BUTLINS?! Maybe accept her as she is and take her somewhere she would enjoy.

Sorry OP should have rtft. A forest park sounds lovely, if you win the lottery maybe centreparcs.

On their website they have a specific page where they ask you to contact them before booking to discuss any special requirements :

www.butlins.com/help-contact/disability-requirements

Did you call and explain what specific things you were looking for on your holiday?

What one did you go to, we never had to book swimming at Bognor last October

Other poster are right about the challenge of accepting that your child/ grandchild is different and loving them for being the incredible unique individual that they are.

Did you contact them in advance of booking to discuss your requirements? Does she have a DLA letter as evidence for reasonable adjustments? JAM card or other card to show she’s autistic to avoid queuing?

If not do all of this in future, if travelling by plane you need to contact disability services. To avail of a free carer ticket you need to contact booking office in advance and often submit paperwork (think box office for theatre/cinema/Merlin attractions)

It’s crap if they were running behind for things and didn’t have any autism friendly shows. The latter would have been apparent if you’d rung in advance. Regards swimming and softplay, you should have been able to skip the queue and access a disabled change area, and to have had her stay in the younger softplay under supervision, provided you have evidence.

Chalk it up to experience, sorry it was disappointing, taking them away/out can feel like a military endeavour!! Hope the next time is more successful.

I'd suggest a farm stay holiday with animals to feed etc would be calmer than Butlins.

You sound like a great GM OP!

You need to focus on the fact your GD had a great time - it might not have been the same great time you'd have wanted as a child but it worked for her. It might not have been the ideal place with hindsight and all sounds a bit haphazard and poorly organised - but that's often then case as huge places with lots going on.

Next time take her to a chalet with woods and a beach and she'll be in heaven. Plus contact anywhere you might visit in advance so you don't have to queue etc. Think of the things she likes and work for her - does she like farm animals, pootling along in a little train, climbing on play equipment etc

With this update I don't think you are unreasonable. The funfair and swimming had reduced capacity compared to what you expected when booking. And the events that did run ran late. I would also be disappointed in the same circumstances.

Three is also a slightly awkward age as they can be too big for the toddler section but not quite robust enough for the older children section. If all the older children are expected to go in together then at busier times I think it would be reasonable if they had sections of each hour for under 7s and sections for 8 plus.

The main thing though is that your granddaughter enjoyed it and you will both have some lovely memories to look back on.

When going anywhere new I always look on the venues website for the accessibility policy. Makes it clear how welcoming the place is and if I have other questions I can then get in touch.

you find when your a carer for someone with a disability everything takes more planning (and even then you often forget something!) it becomes like a military operation at times for us!

You're not being unreasonable for wanting to give your granddaughter a lovely time - but I'd advice research, research and more research next time.

I'm a Mum of two autistic children and you just can't take anything for granted or assume anything...you need to be really prepared. Especially when going on holiday.

Prior to booking I'd advise ringing up and talking to companies about what their accessibility looks like - if they're vague or non committal then you know it's not the place for you.

As hard as it can be, you have to let go of the idea of what a holiday might look like for other families...and embrace the kind of holiday your granddaughter would really enjoy.

I'm sorry it sounds like a hard few days - and hope that next time it goes much better!

@Kentuckycriedfrickin I love your truly silent disco, that's adorable!

I was also at Butlins last week. I’m not ND but it was too much noise in general even for me so no idea why you’d take a child you know will struggle with that. Even they did a ND friendly show, what about the rest of the time?

Besides, I found Butlins to be a filthy, stinking shit hole full of people with the desire to be plastered all day long and leaving their kids to please themselves.

I kind of see it both ways. You want your daughter to be able to experience the same activities that other children do. However you have taken her somewhere that isn't most appropriate for her. I'd imagine a caravan somewhere with lots of quiet outdoor space would have been better.

I do think that Butlins could be missing more of a money spinner here in fairness. Opening the pool earlier for a ND swim, or a separate evening show before the other evening entertainment that is quieter no flashing lights etc. They would easily market these things and would probably encourage many more bookings as a result.

If supermarkets can offer a quieter hour before opening and soft play can offer sensory rooms then I think Butlins might be missing a trick here.

I'm not ND and neither are my children but I think families should be able to experience things in a way to be inclusive.

You're crazy. I have a ND child but I plan our holidays accordingly. Swimming and nature, downtime in comfortable accommodation, and figure out myself what our trip is going to look like. I wouldn't dream of taking her to Butlins or to a busy shopping mall or busy town (unless we could keep it short, nipping in and out quickly).

It's not up to Butlins to provide a holiday that suits your child. Butlins provide what they see fit that appeals to most.

@Chocolateorange22

You've hit the nail on the head with your point of view,
even extremely busy Supermarkets can offer to the customers,
earlier mornings quieter browsing shopping hours during the week and soft plays family venues can offer sensory spaces rooms,

then surely somewhere like Butlins could adapt to be more inclusive ect,

It just needs Butlins to have the initiative and the creative imagination and the dynamic and doing some research on this topic to implement being more inclusive to neurodivistity friendly etc...

But the supermarkets are already open at that time it’s quiet anyway, they don’t have to pay extra staff to specifically open to have a suitable time for autism. They never have their autism hour at 10am on a Saturday morning or 6pm on a Friday night for example. Same with soft play, the autism session is usually 9am on a Sunday morning or 3.30 after school when they would be quiet anyway. As Butlins is a holiday place and has different people every week they are all using the facilities as part of their holiday so although there are slightly quieter times there is never a naturally very quiet time that you could designate as an autism session