I’m a middle-aged widow. I don’t want your husband

[CousinBette]

…so you know, I could still be invited to the dinner parties and weekends away that I was invited to before the husband died… Instead, it’s just meeting the woman in the couple for coffee until we are all widows together in twenty years time.

AIBU?

I never said it wasn't, I am referring to a PP saying "So why do you expect me to see suddenly losing my male friends as no issue at all?"

If they were her male friends and not her female friends husbands then she wouldnt be losing them would she?

Well it does not apply to you than does it?
We are talkung about situations where four people are hanginv around and once someone loses partner they are not invited to hang out with couple any more.

As it is MN I am not surrprised, but amount of women who think that if their friends partner talks to them is due to some special friendship between them two, not him just being polite to his wifes friends is too damn high.
Your friend does not find you hot.
Her partner finds you boring.
This is why they are not invited to couples hangouts.

Also, who the fuck wants to be a third wheel?
Cannot imagine asking my DH to invite me to every meet up with his friend just because we sometimes go out with his wife as four of us.
Pathetic.

Quite. I talk to my husbands friends out of politeness/support for him. Not because I am frantic to whip off their pants. And not even because I particularly enjoy their company.

This thread needs renaming into:
"I’m a middle-aged and single, why your husband does not want to hang out with me?"
It would cover the topic better.

Well according to posts on here she would. Because men and women can't possibly be friends.

My DSs Godfather no longer socialises with me. His wife doesn't like it. Even though I've known him 20 years longer than she has. I mean, he could man up and tell her not to be silly. But whatever.

@Kneenightmare
"Why though? I’m married and have no interest in being friends with other peoples husbands- I much prefer to go out with my friends alone."

Because the husbands are my friends too! Why shouldn't I get to spend time with all of my friends? Just because I'm single, doesn't mean I shouldn't spend time with my male friends who happen to be married to my female friends.

Oh ffs. You have spectacularly missed the quite specific point of this thread. A number of widows have explained their experiences and feelings after traumatic loss. People have talked about older widows experiencing the same, where it appears that social exclusion occurs when you're no longer part of a couple, and other couples don't adjust to the new dynamic.

It leaves one feeling as though you're not enough, or you're a ticking time bomb, or any number of reasons in other people's heads that you're not privy to and you are left speculating as to why?

As I said previously the couples I am still close to knew me before I was with DP. One of those couples knew him separately as well - the circles we move in have many cross overs. Couples we only knew together as it were are the ones who have fallen away.

I'm certainly not a temptress of any sort at the moment. I have 6 inches of roots, I've started to go really grey. My face is puffy and I have loads of new lines. Two years of trauma are absolutely etched on my face right now.

Whether I'm considered a threat to anyone in the relationship department I don't know and I don't care but it's possible because people are complicated and messy and have insecurities. I've heard similar sentiments as the OP from another widow who was accused to her face of having designs on someone by their wife.

Thing is, for most, though possibly not all widows / widowers, their identity has changed - they are no longer part of the world before bereavement and trying to adjust to that is all consuming. People suddenly distancing themselves or treating you differently takes time to process.

DP and I were a bit "joined at the hip" socially. We both worked in separate places with a social vibe then went out and socialised together, out of choice. I've never had a big girly group of friends anyway. Sometimes we went out separately but mostly we didn't and it worked for us. Everyone is different. You don't consciously think "Oh I'd better cultivate friendships with individual peopke in case I end up widowed and all our couple friends don't want a third wheel playing gooseberry or sitting like a spectre at the feast at dinner parties".

That's not how life works. Life is organic, habits form, you have patterns of behaviour and it gives you security. When it changes dramatically and irrevocably it's devastating on so many levels. You can't know how things will be. There is no handbook for this shit no matter how much we think there should be.

This happened to me too. I wasn’t expecting it at all and it has just another blow. Talk about kicking a dog when it’s down. The last thing I was thinking about was stealing someone else’s husband.

Sorry this happened to you but the good news is that you get to find out who your real friends are.

There are some smug horrors on here who have rude awakenings ahead in life.

@MistressoftheDarkSide you are a brilliant writer!

Why the assumption that it's sexual insecurities rather than that the husbands would rather spend their time doing something else? Or are being courteous and don't want some one to be the third wheel. I just can't imagine leaping to that assumption. It seems the least likely of the three explanations (although admittedly the most ego boosting).

I have single friends and don't tend to invite DH along to meet them but I can honestly say him being tempted is the last thing on my mind! it's more a worry he will be bored/would prefer to do something else

I'm not sure what's smug about not thinking everyone is uncontrollably attracted to you?

And I lost my first love in my early twenties so believe me I have experienced grief. But never did I think it meant women were worried their men were throwing themselves at me

Words fail me. Your lack of comprehension is at a whole new level.

I would put money on the fact that the OP hasn't immediately jumped to that assumption out of thin air and ego. I'll tell you one thing for sure, especially as an older widow, the ego is tired, weary and just wants a quiet life. Being aware that you're "widowing" wrong (because there is no right) is the final nail in the coffin sometimes.

@Over40Overdating Thank you, much appreciated x

The main evidence being described here is the lack of invitations to "couple" events/the fact only the wife comes out not the husband

@MistressoftheDarkSide I do agree you can't widow wrong!

I also think it helps though to know that lots of people in our society struggle with death and also struggle to include single people/those without kids and so on. If you (general widows, not anyone in particular) managed to have friends across all types of groups, single, divorced, widowed, and talk about grief in a mature way, then that's probably more than most people. I was certainly guilty of not talking to my lovely widow friends (widowed in her late twenties) that much about these things, and I think it was exceptionally generous of her to step up as my friend when my husband became ill and died.

I'm just saying it's easy to jump to 'everyone's excluding me', but also we have to recognise we may have been part of that ourselves in the past- of taking the easy options of socializing with people similar to us (in couples, with kids, whatever) and may not have realised there were people that were on the sidelines who would have appreciated an invite themselves.

I find a lot of solidarity with divorced and single parents, although these days I am also joined happily by my married friends who find their husbands hardgoing (at least 50%). I would hate for them to feel they can't have a moan in case they offend me by having a husband!

Quite. I don’t see why I should “go and find some male friends” when I already did. I just happened to get to know them through their partner, who was already my friend too.

As it is MN I am not surrprised, but amount of women who think that if their friends partner talks to them is due to some special friendship between them two, not him just being polite to his wifes friends is too damn high.
Your friend does not find you hot.
Her partner finds you boring.
This is why they are not invited to couples hangouts.

Wow. Just…wow. So someone who just so happens to be your friend’s partner wouldn’t possibly be friends with you too, you just think they are because, Samantha Brick-style, you think you’re hot and interesting when you’re not.

Have you considered taking up life coaching, @LondonFox?

@NeedToChangeName

It would be nice if it was nice things being said and fun memories recounted.

What it tends to be is
a) total avoidance (as with your aunt)
b) recounting how awful the health problems were, how sudden and young the death, how long ago the death is now, how awful for us to have to cope as carers, all the while with pained, constipated expressions
c) seems to be ok with normal chit chat interspersed with references to dead person, then when you’re leaving you see out of the corner of your eye a visible relaxation that you’ve left

There are a few diamonds who are lovely and behave normally. But most make you feel tolerated and as if it’s such a burden for them to even speak to you.

But the fact they stop coming out is quite likely to be precisely because they didn't see you as their friends. I find it baffling that the automatic assumption is the wife keeping them on a tight leash rather than that they were never that fussed by your company. If DH friends spouses die I will be sad for them but by and large not be fussed about tagging along when he heads out to the pub with them. And I would probably assume that they would prefer an evening out with him to one with the two of us.

My DSs Godfather no longer socialises with me. His wife doesn't like it. Even though I've known him 20 years longer than she has. I mean, he could man up and tell her not to be silly. But whatever

Then, I would argue he's not really a great friend then is he? If my DH "banned" me from seeing a friend who had lost their spouse I'd laugh and tell him where to go because thats ridiculous- nothing would stop me supporting my friends because I care about them. If the wife has told him he cant then isnt that rather on him?

I think it's a bit misogynistic that this thread is all about blaming women for men not stepping up and supporting their friends. It couldn't possibly be that they are just shit friends could it?, or dont give a toss and are selfish, no, it must be their jealous shrew of a wife preventing them.

Why are men getting a free pass here for being such terrible friends?

Why are men getting a free pass here for being such terrible friends?

I do agree with this. If your male friends drop you like a stone after losing your husband then that reflects very poorly on them for doing that. They could have sent supportive texts or rang you, they could have arranged a group meet up, they could have made an effort to keep the group together. The fact they arent doing that and are just passively sitting back and allowing it to happen indicates that they really dont care very much at all.

I agree with PP that a lot of people are assuming these people are good friends but this behaviour clearly shows they arent at all because a good friend simply wouldnt do that. Its true that you find out who your real friends are after a bereavement and I think a lot of people in this thread are sadly, finding out that the people they thought were close friends didnt see it that way and probably see them more as mere acquaintances the entire time.

If someone truly cares, they'll show it. If they dont, then maybe they never did care in the first place.

🎯 I think you’re right.

Yeah I have to say whether I’m single or not, I typically enjoy being with my friends alone rather than their male or female partner coming along.

I’m happy to spend time with their partner at their house if they’re around when I visit or if I’ve specially invited couples to an event (rare), but generally speaking as lovely as my friends husbands/wives are - beyond exchanging pleasantries I’d rather do dinner /coffee/lunch or theatre with my actual friend.

I think it’s more strangers/new people I meet at parties or work functions etc that have treated me with suspicion when I was single. NOT my friends. I’d never assume my friends are coming without their husbands because they are wary of me lol

It's odd because people talk about Tinder culture being sleazy, but this is just social dynamics unfortunately and has been for a long time.

This is so true, way before tinder started I remember people finding out their “boyfriend” was another persons fiancé/husband. I was asked out by someone’s fiancé I knew when I was 21 and he was a few years older. I recall she was a bit older than him - closer to 30. All these years later they’re married and I always wonder if he still cheats with younger women - probably.

I think the issue is the apps have just provided a medium for people to get bombarded with that kind of sleaze and more opportunity for the men to operate 24/7. But I do laugh a bit with people talk about the apps and say they feel sorry for single people having to use them - half the users are in relationships! Various surveys have confirmed that. It’s not just “sad singles”

I'm genuinely surprised people are immediately jumping to it being the jealous wife's fault here.

I just saw another thread about someone being disappointed that their friends arent being supportive when her dad is dying and seem to have basically abandoned her in her time of need. I've seen many other posts similar to this around death and grief.

I think people are generally really rubbish at dealing with other people's pain and grief. It makes people uncomfortable and they dont know what to say so they avoid. Now, this is absolutely not an excuse- its still crap behaviour, but I think this is a far more likely explanation- that people feel awkward about others grief, rather than all the wives assuming the OP is a femme fatale who is going to steal their man.

I've experienced it myself- when I lost both my parents people avoided me because they didnt know what to say (and it was my parents so nothing to do with jealousy) and yes, it was really quite heartbreaking so I have much empathy for that.

However, I think it's far more likely to be this than the women in the group suddenly seeing their friends as a threat to their marriage. I mean, this doesnt even make sense- plenty of people who are married have affairs- if they were so worried about their husband being attracted to their friends, why werent they concerned about it beforehand?

Why would you take someone with you who doesn't have that shared history? Surely that could be quite awkward for the person you bring (and your friends) if there are references to other friends/events/situations/jokes that mean nothing to your guest?