I’m a middle-aged widow. I don’t want your husband

[CousinBette]

…so you know, I could still be invited to the dinner parties and weekends away that I was invited to before the husband died… Instead, it’s just meeting the woman in the couple for coffee until we are all widows together in twenty years time.

AIBU?

I do get that but as PP have said, usually, it's two women who become friends and then their partners are invited along to occasional large group events to mingle and chat with each other and the women still meet up one on one because its them who are primarily friends. I am not friends with my friend's husbands. For example, if my best female friend split up with her husband, I would not keep in contact with him or meet up with him on his own because my friendship is with her, not him- he has his own friends. He's a decent guy, but we are not "friends". We just both have my friend in common.

I actually think it would be a bit weird if they split and I tried to arrange a meet up with him. I wonder if people are assuming "friendships" when actually, it's more like acquaintances. Also, if someone literally ignores you for decades when your partner dies then I wouldnt consider that person a friend at all- because thats awful behaviour. The issue I am talking about here is a female friend wanting to meet up just the two of us (rather than in a group context)- I have no issue with that at all because I'd prefer it. I am so sorry for your loss x

That's true, but as I've said previously, my experience is that when you get dropped from the couples group you get dropped by the wives group too.

Perhaps it makes them uncomfortable to have you around but not include you in everything, perhaps they don't like to be reminded of their own vulnerabilities, or perhaps (as I'm beginning to suspect) some people, in not particularly happy long term relationships, feel some jealously about your newfound freedom and that must create some uncomfortable feelings, given how it came about.

Anyway, it's about much more than the dinner parties or being invited along to the couple stuff.

It is hard. I'm still trying to find a group. I have friendships with different women, som in a relationship, some not, but they don't know each other. Sometimes it's nice to belong to a group. What can we do. It doesn't change. That much is clear.

I didn't say that. You've jumped to a negative conclusion; ironically my comments have been almost entirely about that type of thinking - assumption, and maybe nudging the OP towards a different (perhaps more beneficial?) outlook. And the reason we're using dinner parties as an example is because the OP cited those specifically.

The OP hasn't come back to the thread, so maybe she was just looking to vent, which is entirely understandable - she's suffered a horrific loss. It's still worth pointing out the emotional toll assumption takes though; people only assume when they don't have the information they need. I think the OP should speak to her friends, and be very frank with them (obviously leaving out that she suspects they are merely insecure/in unhappy marriages!) about how she feels.

In my experience friends who tolerate you speaking about how you truly feel as a widow are rare as rocking horse shit. The first rule of widow club is you don't talk about widow club. The second rule of widows club.. ..you get the picture.

The cardinal sin is to appear needy in any way. Feeling lonely and isolated? Well why aren't you making more effort to connect? The answer to which is that after several attempts at doing so have resulted in awkwardness, you end up withdrawing because it generates extra negative feelings on top of original negative feelings, and it's overwhelming.

The majority of posts here clearly explain that whatever the motivation for people behaving weirdly around the bereaved it happens astonishingly regularly. Of course it would be nice if you could have the actual explanation and one does fill in that void with possibilities based on how people are behaving around you.

Being widowed leaves one raw, vulnerable and exposed - almost skinless. Everything "normal" is physically and mentally and emotionally felt. At least that is how it's been for me, and I'm aware that everyone's experience is unique. The final insult is adding in the feeling that there's something wrong with you because of the way other people are behaving.

We're particularly shit at dealing with death I think. After a very short while for a bereaved person, there's an almost tangible sense of embarrassment that one comes up against. You just have to suck it up, throwing in the occasional acknowledgement of other people's awkwardness around you, to try and make them feel at ease. It's exhausting trying to be "mindful" of other people's feelings when your own are in perpetual turmoil.

It's even been medicalised now, grief I mean. "Problematic grief" I think they call it. Too right grief is problematic for everyone involved, but the directly bereaved have to deal with their own problem and everyone else's apparently. And if you struggle you are expected to seek professional help to overcome it, because getting back to normal is paramount in modern society.

But it's a lie. There is no normal any more. There's a new reality to adjust to that you don't want to be your normal.

In time yes you become more tolerant, less prone to feeling the rise of emotional incontinence when you pass the salmon in the fish aisle because DP had a knack of cooking it to perfection with a blue cheese sauce that was to die for (Ahem).

But you're changed and the world is changed and nothing makes sense - you just hope that you get your Oscar in the next life....

There is no fix or cure, there is adapting to survive.

@Unjustifiable if you meet up with a couple you formerly socialised with ......it inevitably turns to - wasn’t it great when they were here, we miss them and so on… again, ........ My parent purposefully avoids many friends from before as finds it too upsetting they are all still in couples and constantly want to talk about dead spouse I'm sorry to read this is your parent's experience

My aunt felt the opposite. No one mentioned my uncle and she felt he'd been erased from their memories. She would have preferred him to be mentioned

Grief is a very personal thing, I guess

"Grief is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're gonna get".

You make your point very well. And what you say is true - I felt the emotion in your post.

Losing your spouse is on a different level to losing a parent, so I'm not comparing, only saying I can empathise with that post grief avoidance. Fortunately I've not experienced the former, only the latter. My Dad is a widower and when the smoke cleared after my my Mum died, I was the only one left standing. The rest of our family quietly exited stage left. They stick their head round the door, meanwhile I give my Dad the much needed practical (and sometimes emotional) support. My Mum was an awesome presence, and her absence is palpable - it's still a daily battle though to remind myself that it's just because they feel her absence acutely when they visit his house, and I try not to let the anger swell in my gut that they've effectively abandoned him. Very difficult.

MistressoftheDarkSide

I'm so sorry for your loss. What a poignant, beautiful post.

So unless OP was friends with that wife's husband as initial friendship, there is no reason for two of them to hang out later, they were always add ons.

So what happens when you've become friends with the partner in your own right and they're no longer an "add on"? One of my closest friends is someone I met though him getting together with my friend. I socialise with him and his partner quite often, either me/him, me/her or all three of us. They're just friends and I enjoy the company of both of them. Why is that weird?

@MistressoftheDarkSide

Thank you for your post. Beautifully written and so accurate.

So sorry for your loss.

Edited as posted before I had finished typing.

@MistressoftheDarkSide that was a beautiful post. I'm sorry for your loss

So sorry💐

MistressoftheDarkSide - you have very eloquent provided the ‘muggles’ with a glimpse behind the widow curtain.

This post seems to have provided a much needed space for fellow widows.

If any of you were bereaved before you were 51, may I recommend WAY (Widowed & Young). Contrary to what you may read in the press, it’s actually a very supportive group of ‘young’ bereaved people helping & supporting each other through this minefield of grief.

I don't socialise with couples anymore as a single woman. On multiple occasions I've been hit on by the bloke, once it happened when his wife was in the next room. It's so depressing the number of men who are looking to play away.

I think a lot of it is awkwardness around death, although one of my best friends was a widow anyway so we were used to talking about her husband.

I noticed no-one spoke about my husband after about two months, it was like he never existed. So, I just started to speak about him again myself, so if we were out on a night out and chatting about men and gardening/hobbies/career moves/emotions I'd just join in and say 'X was like that', and I feel a lot better. No-one seems to think it is odd, I think they were looking for their cue from me, and didn't want to raise it and by being more natural myself, it has helped. In my family we also talk about my husband loads, my mum remembers our anniversary, the kids chat about their dad. Can be sad, but there's nothing worse than not having to mention someone as if they are like a past secret.

I agree it's very hard and, similar to yourself I have friendships which are a combo of widowed/separated/married ladies, but not necessarily known to each other.
One thing I have learned though as a widow is that you are very much on your own, and at times feel like a societal outcast.😞

I really object to the OP being called needy. Said from a very smug position. It is exactly this perception that leads to a widow suddenly feeling alienated. She just does not conform to the “norm” I wouldn’t wish it on anyone - losing my husband at 54 is horrendous. But please do not call OP or any person in her position needy as I will tell you now they have more strength and guts than anyone who has lived the “perfect normal” life.

But why would it be awkward?

It is rather embarrassing that a grown adult can't socialise with their partner and another person who happens to be single, divorced or widowed.

We are hardwired to connect. Saying that somebody has social needs and meaning it as a put down is a bit lacking in empathy and generosity

Keep your wedding ring on..

I don't think it has anything to do with their marital status. That's paranoia (or ego) talking.
I often meet friends for a chat just by myself because I don't do everything joined at the hip to my husband. I regularly meet each of my best friends/my sister on an individual basis because I love those catch ups best (plus someone needs to look after the children!) DH is usually looking after mine and their husband is looking after theirs.
It's got nothing to with worrying dh will run off with them and everything to do with just wanting to spend time with my girlfriends without wondering whether DH is bored /needing to book a babysitter

And when we did plan a group catch up recently and the question was put whether to involve partners all the single people voted not to (and it was a mix among the couples, some women wanted to come on their own, others much more have a "joined at the hip" relationship)

I can't imagine leaping to the assumption girlfriends are meeting up with me without their husbands because I am such a threat 😂

You're missing the point.

If the two couples were close enough to meet up very regularly as a four, why would they stop meeting up when they become a three?

Why would it feel so awkward to you to meet up with your very close friend without her husband, after his death? And why does your awkwardness trump her expectation that you'll both still be her friend?

@NoPaintedPony I have signed up to their newsletter but not yet been brave enough to join. Another thread has said if you don’t grieve a certain way then they aren’t particularly welcoming, and another poster found the same. I’m guessing it’s dependent on the groups members though.

My parents have known a couple for 50 odd years. If the husband dies my mum won't suddenly start seeing the wife on her own. The wife is also friends with my Dad. The whole point is that they're both friends with both parties. It's not either or, the wife doesn't get invited to keep my mum company and the husband doesn't get invited to keep my Dad company. Both sides like spending time with both sides.