175k salary and all gone

[175allgone]

This will ruffle some feathers, but after tax, mortgage , childcare, living expenses….there doesn’t seem much left. SE London, commuting, wrap around care. Whilst I appreciate I’m not having to watch my bills I’m hardly living an extravagant lifestyle.

I think there’s a lack of understanding here of what typical nursery prices cost now, as well as the fact a nanny isn’t always appropriate for the reasons other posters have outlined.

Yes, Islington is a choice, but when you work 50-60 hours a week, not everyone wants to spend a further two hours a week commuting and cutting into family time.

Affordable childcare should be extended to all.

why don't they just get a nanny if they have more than one kid? or is that the nanny cost?

Err no. I pay £2600 per month for a £500k mortgage. £500k where I live would get you a tired three bedroom terrace, a semi if you are lucky.

Literally anywhere.

Another excellent contribution to the thread. You sound very bitter.

Clearly it's the childcare that's costing, why is is so much? How many kids and where are you sending them?

@Dibblydoodahdah if she lives in Islington. I assume she has a lot of equity in her problem! Not saying everyone that pays that much on their mortgage lives in a palace!

You are housed (in a very expensive borough), fed and can pay all your bills.

How much do you think you should have left over?

As others have said when your kids go to school and you pay down your mortgage thibgs will get easier. Ironically if you lived further out where more families live you would probably have an easier time of it with childcare costs and later on, education.

Childcare in London is a killer, our nursery fees for 1 child were just over £2k a month, thought would make a nice difference when the 15 free hours kicked in at 3, but then along comes Jeremy Hunt and his completely uncosted ‘free’ hours and the daily rate went up 15% 😒 Another one starting there soon.

We earn a bit more that you and similarly in north London and I would say while we don’t struggle it’s definitely not a lavish lifestyle, the holidays aren’t extravagant, the car in the garage isn’t fancy. London’s just expensive.

It is not comparable to someone on benefits. They would not be left with £17k to spend as they wish. Many get way less.

I mortgage my own house (worth £127k, £22k mortgage left) and after bills (no heating, can't afford it) have £30 for food, travel etc. I didn't ask to be suddenly disabled, on benefits.

Please stop with the "we're all in the same boat" attitude.

It's really not rocket science OP. Your spending expands to fit your income and you have no savings unless you plan and budget!

For example - how often do you eat out? What would you say would be your average spend on such a night?

How often do you buy new clothes? How much a month roughly?

How do others manage on far, far less income? Easy. They spend less.

How much did you budget out your life at when you knew you were going to be living in SE London and have two kids? As in, is there a surprise cost that you didn't plan for and that's what's throwing you off?

I think most people either earn more/are rich or don't live in London with 2 kids. I guess a lot of people in your situation would be looking for a pay rise, a new job, negotiating more WFH time or going basically fully remote and living outside London. I have friends who go to the London office they're based at once a month. They live in Leicester, and get the train to central London in just over an hour. They live in a nice 4 bed detached house with garden and their living costs are less than half of yours but they still have London salaries.

Or live in less expensive parts of London.

Or get help with childcare and housing from the government.

The obvious question seems to be can one of you cut hours, assuming that’s a joint income. Then the cost of childcare will decrease and you may be better off? If you’re paying nursery/nanny you may be better to look for a childminder. To me that seems a ridiculous amount to pay on a mortgage which is why many people move out of London as it’s cheaper to commute into London and not have a ridiculous mortgage. I live in the south east not a city most people I know seem to have a 3 bedroom home with a mortgage of around £1000 or less. I guess it depends what kind of home you see as essential.

And then a fair few are propped up by family money.

Agreed.

We have an effective 100% tax rate between £100-135k for parents with two preschoolers, while they still might be spending >50% of their income on childcare.

It just doesn’t make any sense.

I know people in the top ~1% of earners cutting down their hours. Ludicrous.

Colleagues tell me that they pay between £100-120/day nursery fees which equates to £4000/month for two. It’s a lot but that’s not unusual around London/parts of Surrey/Herts etc.
It is why we won’t have a truly decent economy and gender and social equality without subsidised high quality childcare like our European colleagues.

I’m sure the disabled people who are about to have their PIP and child DLA slashed to the bone would be delighted to know that the savings made from that would be going towards childcare for those who are perfectly capable of paying it for themselves. Robbing the poor to give to the rich.

Actually, given the size of your mortgage and childcare bill I wouldn't expect you to be 'well off', no. That surplus between a family, while 'comfortable' and more than many, provides no where near the sort of lifestyle you may have imagined on that income level, and must be very disappointing, as we get an image of what a 'high income' lifestyle would look like, and it wouldn't look like that to me. I enjoy far greater disposable income on a salary of 25% of that, due to lifestage and location.
I suppose it's a long game though, as you will obviously get better off in time when you lose the childcare, pay down your mortgage, then when your DC become independent and you're sitting on a valuable property, you'll reap the benefits.

You were making a big assumption. She might live in a small flat. You have no evidence that her house is “incredible”. Lots of people paying mortgages of £2500 per month are not living in incredible houses because of how expensive the houses are in the first place.

Paying £2.5K mortgage is only £500k if fixed a year ago. Hardly a mansion - more likely a 2-3 bed flat.

They’re the top 3% in the country. They should be able to have more than a flat in Islington.

Next time mumsnetters say “tax the rich” we need to remember the OP

I’m sure the disabled people who are about to have their PIP and child DLA slashed to the bone would be delighted to know that the savings made from that would be going towards childcare for those who are perfectly capable of paying it for themselves. Robbing the poor to give to the rich.

Whats the above got to do with funding childcare for all? Why is it either or? I didn’t think DLA was means tested though, is that changing? @Rosscameasdoody

I was paying £110 per child per day at a bog standard bright horizons 5 years ago, I've also used a nanny and they are about £21 ph all in so if you need 12 hrs then it's not much cheaper.

2.5k pm for a mortgage is a bargin tbh, we moved from z2- z6 and prices are only marginally cheaper where we have chosen to look. (Im not complaining, we are very priviledged)

But it's not forever, in 10 years you'll have 0 childcare costs, and have the benefit of living in Islington. i dont think higher earners should get the free hours (i.e. my family) when others need it more.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is bitter. I just have no time for "woe is me" threads from very privileged rich people.

They’re the top 3% in the country. They should be able to have more than a flat in Islington.

Next time mumsnetters say “tax the rich” we need to remember the OP

This is the issue though isn’t it. Tax the rich often means taxing those on PAYE more. We have a big bias on income vs wealth taxes. Someone who earns 175k isn’t necessarily richer in total terms then someone who has never earned anywhere near that.