To think taxing private schools...

[maddening]

I have no skin in the game, my dc is at a secondary state school. I have no strong views on private schools - although I think state should offer the same level for all dc.

However, looking at the maths I am not convinced the cost and benefits of this proposal works out - apparently vat will bring in 1.3 billion - however if the 554,000 children in private schools had to be schooled in state schools that would cost 4 billion - aibu to think this is not the win that many are led to believe? It is more divisive imo and driven by ideology.

If the private school parents are saving the state 4 billion a year then I don't have an issue with the vat personally.

I think that there could be more requirements placed on private schools in order to retain the vat free status, such as sharing facilities with local state schools and more subsidised places perhaps, or means tested vat relief for parents?

You’ll take a £25k pay cut? I suppose you could though generally people don’t and spend the money on other things. But it doesn’t really affect the overall policy as oddly it isn’t designed around you and your particular circumstances.

I’m quite aware of the tax consequences of taking money out of a pension but I am also aware that taking my income down so that I only pay basic rate tax means I will pay a lot less tax overall.

It’s not designed around behaviour generally.

Plus when your children join a state school with vacancies they’ll benefit from the extra funding which they’ll be happy about.

Plus when your children join a state school with vacancies they’ll benefit from the extra funding which they’ll be happy about.

If only politicians could work out keeping the education budget as it is and fewer pupils would mean more funding per state pupil.

The pp dc might find her dc learning more accessible in private, given your concerns about SEN in pp

You may pay less tax but they money goes into pension funds which will eventually lead to government revenue through the way they are invested to grow

And by investing in tourism pension you save a future government cash especially if you end up needing care

Wind all around

If you want to "threaten" that the government will be noticeably worse off financially if they don't do what you want I suggest you put any spare cash under your mattress

Labour are right that sone rich people shouldn't benefit at the expense of others

And it's right that we should put doing the right thing ahead of how much money can we make - people and planet before profit

Not a pay cut as I would still be earning the same but investing it in my pension. On £49k after tax I would still be left with £3100 which would result in slightly more disposable income than I have now given that I wouldn’t be paying school fees out. That’s my plan anyway when I finish paying for my DS’ school fees. If I did it now I would also get the child benefit.

Oh I’m sure I’ll be funding my own care if I need it just like I pay my own way now because I am a net contributor not a net beneficiary. I’m not benefiting at the expense of others, I’m paying for others. Any VAT on school fees would be lower than the cost of a state school place. Private school parents are actually saving the country money. But quite frankly I’ve had enough after being on the end of so many personal attacks on these threads. I don’t want to pay for other people any more so I will be doing everything to reduce my overall tax bill as soon as I can. I don’t have or need an extravagant lifestyle. The bulk of my disposable income is spent on school fees because the health and happiness of my DS who has suffered from extreme school refusal and anxiety in the most important thing to me.

Frankly I have had enough of the rich telling us how generous they are and how the world should treat them specially because they contribute so much

One rule for the rich and another for the poor

I am also expecting to be a net contributor over my entire life yet I don't begrudge paying taxes to help those less well off, and to basically make the country a nicer place to live - I am glad and proud that I can help ( even if I would like more money myself , a new car wouldn't go amiss either )

None of us begrudge paying taxes. A lot of private school parents are higher rate tax payers so contribute more via income tax. That's not the argument here.

I didn’t begrudge it before seeing many of the comments on these threads and receiving personal attacks including a poster that insisted I must have a favourite child because I have one in state school and one in private.

Every one wants a better funded education & healthcare system, but they expect the minority to fund it.

The majority of tax take is already collected from only 10% of workers.

Why aren't you screaming for Labour to increase the lowest rate of income tax to say 30%? Why would you...when you can simply bleat on about other income earners, who already pay proportionately more in tax...to pay even more.

The sense of entitlement is off the charts.

If we need to raise additional resource, why isn't everyone digging deep, as proportionately those paying the lowest tax rates will take more out in public services. It's like a group think a section of society have a magic money tree.

I hope when Labour does what it always does....over spends and bankrupts the country. That way when the reckoning comes the only solution will be to increase taxes on everyone, including the lower rates who seem to believe they are somehow entitled to an exemption of paying more.

The sense of entitlement is off the charts.

You can say that again.

Did you even read my post? I've addressed the SEN issue and said exactly the same - VAT exemptions for SEN.

How would that work in practise though, does it apply to all kids with Sen? Private schools already have a higher percentage of their children who get access arrangements in GCSEs/ a levels than mainstream. I don’t think for a minute this is because private schools have more Sen kids but they for want of a better phase they know how to “game the system “, so a child in private school with a slight Sen need may get access arrangement whereas in mainstream the Sen need may have never even been picked up. If all kids with Sen are exempt from vat being charged I can see the number of kids with identified Sen in private going up dramatically as people seek to avoid the vat charge

the children and families act definition of Sen is very wide

A child or young person has special educational needs if he or she has a learning difficulty or disability which calls for special educational provision to be made for him or her.

So let’s hope that a possible labour government ploughs more money into state SEN provision. Then people who are forced to use the private system due to SEN can return to the state one and save themselves some money.
I suspect that the dire state of SEN provision has got worse over the last 14 years. Ok it was probably poor in the 2000s but definitely not as bad as now.
It’s frankly weird that people aren’t putting 2 and 2 together and concluding that the need to resort to private SEN provision is precisely because of cuts to funding under the tories. So essentially moaning about labour who ploughed funding into state education and as usual letting Tory mismanagement off the hook.

Labour aren't promising to do that though (so far) and many parents will need to move their DC immediately if VAT comes in. So there is a big disconnect.

Let’s hope they do. Their manifesto hasn’t been released. On the other hand I guess the tories are just promising more of the same. Swingeing cuts to public services and tax cuts to the highly paid. I’m sure Labour will speak to the teaching unions to get a decent idea of issues.

The trouble is even if labour do improve Sen which hopefully they will it’ll take years and years to flow thorough and it’s no good for children who need support right now.

Tories plan will actually make things worse as they want more children in mainstream and to lower the number of ehcps, expecting school to cover increasing needs out of basic budget

Don’t know what the answer is tbh. Much like the NHS, changes will take years to take effect if they are implemented now.
Hopefully labour will consider the needs of SEN pupils who are in private education. We don’t know at the moment but I guess interest groups will pressure them to find a solution.

You probably won't believe, but there are a lot of people in exactly the same circumstances. Me included. And many parents in my DC year group discuss the same next steps

Other nations have better social mobility and don’t tax school fees. In fact some nations subsidise private education. It’s also illegal to tax education under EU law.

The grammer system still exists in some areas. This is what’s ridiculous; there’s huge inequality within the state system and no one seems to care about that.