To think taxing private schools...

[maddening]

I have no skin in the game, my dc is at a secondary state school. I have no strong views on private schools - although I think state should offer the same level for all dc.

However, looking at the maths I am not convinced the cost and benefits of this proposal works out - apparently vat will bring in 1.3 billion - however if the 554,000 children in private schools had to be schooled in state schools that would cost 4 billion - aibu to think this is not the win that many are led to believe? It is more divisive imo and driven by ideology.

If the private school parents are saving the state 4 billion a year then I don't have an issue with the vat personally.

I think that there could be more requirements placed on private schools in order to retain the vat free status, such as sharing facilities with local state schools and more subsidised places perhaps, or means tested vat relief for parents?

Of course there’s a huge variety of needs within those who have SEN, but that isn’t the definition of SEN varying hugely.

I have posted several times now that LAs often act unlawfully. That doesn’t change the law or the definition of SEN which is defined in legislation.

Whatever

They aren’t conflicting values. I’ve made a ‘luxury’ choice. If the Labour Party wants to tax me more for making that choice fine.

This policy will unlock more funding for state schools, most privately educated children will not move as their parents will pay the extra, just as they have ever6 year fees have gone up in excess of inflation. The schools for the majority of children will get better.

Yes, ‘whatever’ the needs of DC it doesn’t change the legal definition of SEN.

Honestly I’m so sick of this debate now.

It’s not just about a fee increase and being able to afford it. A lot of the time it’s about the principle of it, and where is the line where you think, “this isn’t worth it”. With my 2nd child I’m at that point.

If you are now thinking about your situation, you need to start being proactive about your child’s schooling. You need to know from your school, what their plan is WRT a fee increase. Secondly you need to start looking at your local state schools and 6th Form colleges and visiting them, looking at their results, deciding on your options if you move to state. You should apply for state places, especially secondary or 6th Form and keep your options open whilst all this unfolds. You are just as entitled to take your state places as everyone else is and don’t for a second feel bad about it. As you can see from these threads, schadenfreude is rife.

It’s not just about the money. If Labour bring in this policy expect a whole load of backlash against PS kids from Unis and companies to go alongside it. You need to consider this too. Labour will be in for a while.

Wasn’t talking about that but how far the spectrum is as regard needs- but I think you knew that.

It’s very unlikely to unlock a significant amount of funding, if any. Given that school admissions are falling across the board due to the declining birth rate it would be better to guarantee that the school funding budget says the same overall (meaning that it goes up per child) rather than implementing a policy that will impact some children adversely. Just because you can afford the VAT, doesn’t mean that everyone can.

I agree.

Exactly.

A private school Labour supporter will push the policy but it won’t make it work any better.

‘It’s very unlikely to unlock a significant amount of funding’

Why?

Because everyone will take their children out of private schools? They won’t.

Because people are paying in advance - they and the schools are likely to be on dodgy ground there.

Because Eton will reclaim the VAT on its capex projects over the last 6 years - yes in the short term but not in the medium and long term when VAT receipts will outweigh those claims.

That isn’t what the definition of SEN is, though. If you want people to know what you mean you need to actually explain what you mean and not write something that actually means something different.

Because admissions are already dropping. The IFS report that Labour rely on is almost a year old and there have been further cost of living pressures since then as people move on to higher mortgage rates and significantly higher payments. In fact the Labour MP for Edinburgh recently acknowledged that more families had been pushed to the edge of affordability when asked about the VAT policy.

What has that got to do with private schools? Unless you are jumping to conclusions that I am a Tory.

Admissions are dropping across all schools not just indies. Is the proportional drop in indies greater or significantly greater than education as a whole?

Inflation is down and mortgage rates will follow. Hence general surprise as to why Rishi called the election now rather than in the Autumn.

The figure that I have seen for private schools is higher than the state school admissions drop in London which is one of the areas where admissions are falling the most.

Mortgage rates may drop but they won’t be going back to where they were which means most people will be facing a significant increase.

Erm that it IS taxed in some instances? I think the point I was trying to make was obvious. I don't know of any employers paying for private education, so your point is irrelevant. I guess taxing private education is one way for the government to tax wealth, but it might affect people that are making a sacrifice to send their kid to private school, and fully understand why some people are against it, then again, there is not a single measure the government can take that won't make a portion of the population unhappy.

Of course 20% is going to hit some people. Not everyone has the extra funds.

And if you’re doing it because your dc need SEN support it’s an incredibly poor policy that is designed for GE fodder not actually help

Its a shame you’re caught up in that

Wouldn't it be better to fix SEN support for every child not just those with money ?

It will make zero difference … the kids who “have to leave” (because the correct level for f tax is being levied) will be replaced by someone else.

Private school parents and grandparents make financial decisions to afford school fees which reduces money in the communities and businesses. This leads to rising crime and walling people up in prisons where they are not financially productive for the country. So a reduced population paying school fees the better for community and environmentally for the planet

And do you have evidence for that? Where are these replacement kids coming from? Private school admissions have already fallen this year.

I think you are ignoring basic economics, price, supply and demand

Any sector with 20% hit in tax will see impact including lost jobs

What a load of shite. That’s got to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever heard. Shall I tell you what happens if I take my DS out of private school? I immediately increase my pension contributions to take my salary down to £49k thereby reducing the tax I pay by £15k, the state school place costs the taxpayer £7k and I then claim child benefit for two DC. So the government is £24k worse off.

Well if you save into a pension fund instead I suspect the government will benefit anyway - the money isn't locked in a vault you know